Pursuit and flank contact

The situation: Knight destroys opponent element. It's pursuit legally contacts the flank of another enemy element. When does the enemy element turn to face? I went for facing after the opposing player's movement phase as that would allow him to potentially peel off the attacking knight if possible. The opposing player said that his element should flip after the pursuit movement, not after normal movement in the following bound.

What's the verdict, o arbiters of the Sacred Text?
I'm a moron, but not a lawyer, so Phil really didn't say <G>

The rule states that elements contacted on flank or rear, but not mutually to front, "turn to face the first to so contact at the end of the movement phase. . ."

There's nothing that suggests that turning to face would happen immediately after pursuit, since that occurs in melee, not during the movement phase.

However, I'm not sure I'd agree that the contacted element could avoid having to turn if a third element contacted the knights in that movement phase, as I think you're suggesting. (I assume that's what you mean by "peel off the knight.") Since elements turn to face "the first to so contact", you'd resolve the contact with the knights first.

[ June 08, 2006, 03:05: Message edited by: E_A_Lindberg ]

As Eric says, you turn to face at the end of the movement phase. Contact at any other time that would normally cause turning-to-face waits until the next "end of movement phase" comes around. Pursuit movement isn't part of the movement phase, so doesn't count.

Originally posted by E_A_Lindberg:

However, I'm not sure I'd agree that the contacted element could avoid having to turn if a third element contacted the knights in that movement phase, as I think you're suggesting. (I assume that's what you mean by "peel off the knight.") Since elements turn to face "the first to so contact", you'd resolve the contact with the knights first.

The "first to so contact" sentence resolves which element you turn to face if you are hit by multiple enemies. It has no solution for which element turns if two or more elements are involved in a string of nobody-facing-anyone's-front sequences where more than one side's elements might be turned.

However, my gut feeling is that Rich's method (peel off the Kn) is the way to go.

The outcome in the next bound of a follow up that ends in a flank contact depends on whose bound it is. In the case Rich mentions, the bound is that of the contacted element. This same situation could happen with the Knight's bound being next. In either case, as other have written, there is no response to the followup after the combat. You just start the next bound with the Kn in contact with the enemy flank.

If the next bound is the Knight's bound, then there no problem at all. This is treated as a free move by the knight into the flank of the enemy. If no element hits the enemy in the front, then the flanked one turns to face at the end of all movement.

The problems occur in the case that Rich cites. It is now the bound of the flanked element. This must have happened thousands of times in the history of DBA, why has nobody asked about this before? Is it clear in the rules what to do or have players just worked it out?

Three situations should be considered. The first is easy. The contact situation exists at the end of all movement. In this case the contacted element turns to face the Kn.

"Elements not in mutual front edge contact with an enemy element but contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front edge turn to face the first to so contact at the end of the movement phase, the contactor making room. "

Of course the word "contacted" can mean either something moved to contact it, or it is in a state of beinig contacted. If the former then the case of the Kn does not apply. I prefer the second meaning, the element is in a state of being in contact.

Second, the player wants to get the contacted element out of the contact. Can the element break off? No, only elements in frontal contact can break off. The case of a pre-existing flank or rear contact is not in the rules. Another oversight? A slight step of logic, could allow us to consider this to be a case of the contacted element being just in the base width distance area of the Knight, even though there is contact. If the contact were not an exact legal contact, I would say this can be done with no further comment.

However, in this case we have a legal flank contact by the Kn. It is the contacted element's bound so why not let it move as if it were just a case of it being in the base width distance area. It can back straight to its rear or line up facing or can make combat contact (why use a PIP for that as it will happen at end of bound anyway). This is an interpretation, it is not specific in the rules. If the contacted player asked me as an umpire to rule on this, I would allow it.

The third case is when the bounding player wants to attack the knight. If the knight were in flank contact with an element which was itself in frontal contact, the Kn would turn to face the attacker. As an umpire I would allow this to happen in the present case. The moving player should have some preference to bring about a situation that he wants. So if the bounding player attacks the Kn on its flank or rear, I would require the Knight to face that attack, causing the Knight to break contact with the other element. Again an interpretation.

The only thing that is perfectly clear in the rules is that elements turn to face flank and rear contacts only at the end of all movement, not at the end of follow up.

My main reason for saying the knight took precedence was the wording of the rule which starts by referring to "elements," and not "element." Since that's the case, I read the "first to so contact" to mean the first to contact any element, not the first to contact whichever element the currently moving player decided to point to.

However, it's such a rare situation I'm not sure it needs to be hashed over.

"Elements not in mutual front edge contact with an enemy element but contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front edge turn to face the first to so contact at the end of the movement phase, the contactor making room. "

Think of all the extra letters that are needed to refer to a single element. The text would need to be.
"AN_Element not in mutual front edge contact with an enemy element but contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front edge turnS to face the first to so contact at the end of the movement phase, the contactor making room. "

By starting with "elements" plural, Phil saved a net 3 characters in this sentence.

Apologies for the delayed entry but I think I'm missing something. The rules say an element will turn to face when contacted in the flank or rear by the FRONT edge of enemy element. What happens in the case of mutual side edge-to-side edge contact? Also,if the Kn is in such contact on both sides (as would be the case after pursuing) which side does he turn to? This assumes that no one is in frontal contact with enemy.

Elements in mutual side edge to side edge or rear edge to rear edge contact must be 'commanded' to turn to face the enemy by use of a PIP.

Cheers!