Dismounting Wb 1V/64b Med. French

Greetings
Just a quick one:
1V/64b Med. French "..5x3Kn//4Bd or 5x5Wb,...."

Question, can the Kn dismount as Wb then the Wb make a second move into combat ?

Regards
Michael

Originally posted by MAXIMUS CELTUS:
"..5x3Kn//4Bd or 5x5Wb,...."
Question, can the Kn dismount as Wb then the Wb make a second move into combat?

Innovative as that tactic might be, alas, no they cannot do that because the Kn cannot dismount as Wb. (See Page 20 of the rules.) The "//" indicates that 4Bd can be substituted for the 3Kn. The "or" means that you can choose to start the game with 5 elements of Knights (which may dismount as Blades), OR 5 elements of Warbands. --Sorry.

[ July 25, 2003, 08:27: Message edited by: Paul A. Hannah ]

Paul
Thankyou, another grand plan Thwarted
Regards
Michael

Sometimes those army lists are difficult to figure out.

If the Kn could dismount to either Bd or Wb then the structure would be like this one
IV/74. Free Company or Armagnac. 1357AD-1410AD & 1444AD.
Arable. Ag: 4. E = IV/61, 64b, 68a, 79. Ref: AMA1.
1x3Kn (Gen), 3x3Kn//4Bd, 2x3Kn//4Bd or 3Kn//4Sp or 3Sp, 1x3/6Kn, 4x4Lb, 1x4Cb or 2Ps or Art.

Here you can have Kn that dismount to either Bd or 4Sp or you can take 3 Sp instead.
Two of each type or one of any two types is allowed.

2x3Kn//4Bd or 3Kn//4Sp or 3Sp

If a number appears before the troop type, then that number of that type must be used. So above you must have two but there are options.

I noticed this recently
I/36. Italian Hill Tribes. 1000BC-290BC.
Hilly. Ag: 3. E = I/33ab, 36, 52i, 55abcde, 57ab, 59, II/8abc, 10, 13.
1x3Cv (Gen), 10x3Ax or 10x3Wb, 1x2Ps.

So you get either 10 Ax or 10Wb not some of each.

II/59. Jewish Revolt. 66AD-70AD & 132AD-135AD.
Hilly. Ag: 0. E = II/22ab, 44, 56, 59. Ref: AEIR.
1x3/4Ax or 3Wb (Gen), 2x4Ax or 3Wb, 4x5Wb or 3Ax, 2x5Wb, 3x2Ps

2x4Ax or 3Wb
Lets you pick 2 Ax, 1 Ax and 1 Wb or 2 Wb.

Hope that helps.

MAJOR Error that needs clarification. The Wb from the Medieval French list are not knights at all. These are the starving pesants that banded together in the Jacqueire sp? revolt that occured during the 100 yrs war after Poiters. These were fairly organized peasant mobs that were looking to band together and take advantage of the situation for personal gain in loot and food from the nobility.

Thus the 3Kn//4Bd or Wb. So you select either the French Knights or you select the Wb Jacqueire.

Hope that helps, Bob has done a great job summarizing how to interpret these lists which at times are difficult unless one is familiar with the former list structure.

Sometimes the lists have a few descriptors for certain element perhaps the Med French one should have jacquerie listed after the Wb so players know that these are not Knights.

Cheers,
George

Hi
Thanks for the advice and tips.
Michael. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally Posted by MAXIMUS CELTUS

Paul-- Thank you; another grand plan thwarted. --Regards, Michael

Ah, but there is one DBA army that would allow you to do this (move, dismount as Warband, and then make a subsequent move into close combat): I/30ab Dark Age and Geometric Greek. That army, unique in all of DBA, I believe, has the following element:

1xLCh//4Wb (Gen)

No suggestions, however, on finding appropriate figures for such an army, however. Oh, and sorry it took me a few weeks to get back to you on this. ;-)

Originally Posted by Paul A. Hannah

Ah, but there is one DBA army that would allow you to do this (move, dismount as Warband, and then make a subsequent move into close combat): I/30ab Dark Age and Geometric Greek. That army, unique in all of DBA, I believe, has the following element:

1xLCh//4Wb (Gen)

No suggestions, however, on finding appropriate figures for such an army, however. Oh, and sorry it took me a few weeks to get back to you on this. ;-)

great find Paul, I need to get this army.
"a few weeks to get back"???? a few years is more like it

Originally Posted by Paul A. Hannah

Ah, but there is one DBA army that would allow you to do this (move, dismount as Warband, and then make a subsequent move into close combat): I/30ab Dark Age and Geometric Greek. That army, unique in all of DBA, I believe, has the following element:

1xLCh//4Wb (Gen)

No suggestions, however, on finding appropriate figures for such an army, however. Oh, and sorry it took me a few weeks to get back to you on this. ;-)

I have a book "Greek Geometric Art" by Bernhard Schweitzer, if you give me time I can see what I can find.

David Constable

P.S. - Might have to be of group as I am dropping DBA.

Here is one person's version
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armieso...eks/index.html

Shield options
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sar...atterns_1.html

Books
Warfare and weapons
Ahlberg, G., Fighting on Land and Sea in Greek Geometric Art (Lund 1971)
Greenlagh, P., Early Greek Warfare (Cambridge 1973)
Hanson, Victor Davis. The Western Way of War: Infantry Battle in Classical Greece. Oxford UP, 1989
Hanson, Victor Davis. Warfare and Agriculture in Classical Greece. U of California Press, 1998
Pritchett, W.K., Ancient Greek Military Practices (Berkeley, beginning 1971)
Pritchett, W.K., The Greek State at War (Berkeley 1974)
Snodgrass, A.M., Arms and Armour of the Greeks (Edinburgh 1967)
Snodgrass, A.M., Early Greek Armour and Weapons (Edinburgh 1964)
Snodgrass, A.M., "The Hoplite Reform and History." JHS 85 (1965) pp. 110-122
Lawrence, A.W. Greek Aims in Fortification (Oxford 1979)
Winter, F., Greek Fortifications. U of Toronto, 1971