Norse Vikings vs. Anglo-Danish

[Pavane]

I played a solitaire game with Norse Vikings attacking the Anglo-Danish in 1045AD: http://groups.msn.com/HammersoftheNo...Ph otoID=1100

[edit] I would appreciate any advise for the Anglo-Danish. Both are relatively homogenious forces, with the advantage to the Vikings. Is there anything the English can do, besides hope to be lucky?

[Scott Russell]

I don't think you have much option but to trust to luck. Take revenge by using the Normans(which you have probably painted up as enemies for the Anglo-Danes) against the Vikings. The Vikings are similarly disadvantaged in this case.
Scott

[Xavi]

Smallish thing there, but In would haver placed the Psiloi behind the next spear element. Ps do not give support to Sp vs Bd, so a bad result for the Sp vs the enemy general will not kill the psiloi. On the other hand, the psiloi would stuill be able to provide support to the sopear in the extreme of the line (the one facing the warbands without risking being killed by the warbands if they overpower the spears. You did that later in the game, anyway.

Plan B would have been to "jump" the Psiloi into an overlap (and then a closed door) ASAP.

Anm other point is that psilois are immortal in this game: nothing in the enemy army kills psilois in the iopen: the best result Bd and Wb can achieve there is to make them flee. That means you can risk holding a whole flank with the lone psiloi, and centre elsewhere. Easier said that done, though!!

Hope that helped a bit. It ended up sounding like a "psilois rock!" comment, even if they are not one of my favourite element types.

Additionally, the best thing you could do is teach your buddies to ride some ponys hehehe

Cheers,

xavier

[Tony Aguilar]

Originally Posted by Xavi

An other point is that psilois are immortal in this game: nothing in the enemy army kills psilois in the open: the best result Bd and Wb can achieve there is to make them flee. That means you can risk holding a whole flank with the lone psiloi, and centre elsewhere. Easier said that done, though!!

Just be careful if you move to contact on your bound with the psiloi. I have lost many a psiloi when I have moved into contact figuring I had nothing to lose by fleeing when I ended up locked in combat instead and then on the enemy bound have the door closed on my psiloi.

Psiloi are a great pain in the butt to the enemy when played defensively to slow down heavy infantry in the open.

[John Meunier]

Originally Posted by Pavane

I played a solitaire game with Norse Vikings attacking the Anglo-Danish in 1045AD: http://groups.msn.com/HammersoftheNo...Ph otoID=1100

[edit] I would appreciate any advise for the Anglo-Danish. Both are relatively homogenious forces, with the advantage to the Vikings. Is there anything the English can do, besides hope to be lucky?

Nice battle report.

It is a difficult match up for the Anglo-Danes, but if I had been playing them in your game, I might have done a little bit different.

First, I would not have been eager to come down off that hill. Spear uphill is as good as blade.

Second, if you had an overlap on one flank, I would have tried to force the action there, especially since his general was at the far side of the battle field from where your overlapping flank was. He could be pip challenged. That lone Ps might have helped keep his right wing slowed down as your right wing tried to envelope his left.

It is not easy. Blade is just tougher than spear. But you stand a better chance if the spear army does not oblige the blades by marching down into a straight toe-to-toe fight.

[Xavi]

I never said thatr Ps should try to attack the Bd or Wb! Entertaining is more defensive for me, not running straight into a missmatched contact. ZOC exists just for that, and (hopefully) to make him break his formation to go0 after the lone Psiloi.

Cheers,

Xavi

[Mike Porter]

To build off what John said, a straight-up fight does not help the Danes. I would have maybe peeled off 3 spear as a column to make a flank march (as best as one can be achieved in DBA). This could either threaten the flank of the Vikings, or, if he has totally committed to the fight in the middle, as a threat to his camp. Psiloi could be used to irritate any force he sends after your column. I dunno, it's a tough fight.

[John Meunier]

Originally Posted by Xavi

I never said thatr Ps should try to attack the Bd or Wb! Entertaining is more defensive for me, not running straight into a missmatched contact. ZOC exists just for that, and (hopefully) to make him break his formation to go0 after the lone Psiloi.

Yes, odd as it seems, this lone psiloi makes the Anglo-Danes the more mobile of the two armies.

Use that meager advantage for all you can.

[David Kuijt]

Some good ideas posted here.

I'd back up a step further. Your ADDs (Anglo-Dane Defenders) picked terrain. Why did you make it so easy on the Vikings? A broad plain is the best environment for them against an overmatched bunch of spear. Put out a medium-sized patch of Woods in the center, and some larger gentle hills not parallel to the edges of the map.

"Why Woods," I hear someone ask, "Surely that is foolish against Warband. Spear can never face Warband in the Woods!"

Don't be silly! I didn't say you were going to FIGHT in the woods!

The cosmic rule of DBA is not to try and win everywhere. With your Spear overmatched, there are two ways you can face Blade in the open. The first way is when you are on a gentle hill. The second way is when the Blade is in bad going, and you are not. In other words, when you are holding the edge of bad going, and your enemy must have feet in BGo to fight you.

Both of these are defensive. So what? You've got some good troops -- three Huscarles and a fast Psiloi. Win the battle with them -- with your spear wall, the important thing is to NOT LOSE. Defensive is fine. Even better is if the enemy uses a lot of pips on the side where you are standing fearfully in your spearwall -- and that's exactly what happens when he is moving up through the woods.

So set up the terrain I mentioned. Then deploy with two spear on the left flank (with one blade and one psiloi); two spear on the right flank (with the other two blades); and spear in the center. Deploy wide. When your opponent has deployed, look at his army and decide which flank you have the best chance of winning on. Often the side where his General is not at. Now swap your two spear on the winning flank with the best troops on the far flank (the Bd/Bd or Bd/Ps), so you have your full best attack unit (three blades, one the Gen, and the psiloi) all on your attack flank.

Now go out there and win. OK, you still might have problems -- but ideally you've got your best elements attacking, with good command-control, on the far side of the wood from his General, so he has poor command-control. Your chances are better than fair, if you are careful. You may still lose -- but it won't be because you got into a scrum between Spear and Blade in the center, where you are certain to be defeated.

[John Meunier]

Originally Posted by David Kuijt

, and some larger gentle hills not parallel to the edges of the map.

"Why Woods," I hear someone ask, "Surely that is foolish against Warband. Spear can never face Warband in the Woods!"

No, David, you misheard me.

What I asked was: "Why should the hills be 'not parallel' to the edges?"