Killing WarWagons

Easier said than done. All my armies (coming soon) are without art and el. so no quick kills. According to my understanding of the rules, only recoiling elements are destroyed if flanked. Since wwg does not recoil, the only option left is to double his throw. given a +4+4 combat factor, this is not easy to achieve. consider a double ranked pikes with +6, there is only a 6 out of 36 chance of doubling if they can get close at all. to exacerbate the situation, i have no pk nor bd against 4 hussite wwg. decent overlaps can be difficult to achieve with other elements supporting the wwg. it is easy to kill four other element types but where is the fun in that.

tips anyone?

Originally posted by kjng:
All my armies (coming soon) are without art and el. so no quick kills.

War Wagons in 2.1 are not +4/+4, they are +3/+4. This makes it possible to use spear and double-ranked warband to kill them (although not quickly).

What armies are you using?

The best way to fight warwagons with a light army is maneuver -- in other words, don't fight the warwagons. Lining up opposite them and standing there and taking fire is what your ENEMY wants, not what you want. Warwagons suck in terrain, and they are not mobile in any sense -- use their pipdrain and immobility to pull your enemy army like taffy first one way, then another, until he is all spread out; at that point he will usually have abandoned his +1-pip-to-move war wagons somewhere and you can attack whatever he's got left.

Note also that foot (other than psiloi) cannot push warwagons back and don't recoil through them -- this means you can use his own warwagons as impassible terrain and squish his troops against them, where a recoil will kill them. This is usually best accomplished after the taffypull described above, or by flanking his main force (forcing him to guard his flank with non-warwagons, which are then squished eventually against the warwagon flanks).

+3/+4 Hah! missed that. yet to finish my cut and paste.

i WILL be using warring states qin and ayyubid egyptian. i am concentrating on qin first(easier to paint, i guess...) to counter this guys hussites (he humbly calls himself 'eternal champion' or something like that in this forum).

as you can see, i have no bd nor sp. will have to depend on wb.

KJ, CEternal tends to play strong armies only!! Just wait for my Aztecs to meet his Malays. he he

Any news from Dave about when your armies will arrive?? Are you still giving John the Germans?

Originally posted by S.Kirby:
KJ, CEternal tends to play strong armies only!! Just wait for my Aztecs to meet his Malays. he he

when ceternal orders in jan, i am thinking of getting a early libyan (d) army. let him try to kill my psilois ha. it would also be an interesting matchup with dave's spartans and sea peoples.

Any news from Dave about when your armies will arrive?? Are you still giving John the Germans?

essex messed up the order. they got it late and only sent it late last week. latest eta next week (cross fingers). Yes, i will forfeit medieval germans to john. medieval armies are difficult to paint.

medieval armies are difficult to paint.

???? What's so difficult? Armour? Standards?

There are plenty of standards you can download and print out.

[ December 03, 2003, 03:11: Message edited by: S.Kirby ]

when ceternal orders in jan, i am thinking of getting a early libyan (d) army. let him try to kill my psilois ha.

I tried this matchup when the 2.1 rules came out - the psiloi won after about two hours of die rolling. Once they get into contact they cannot be killed, you just start to surround the wagons and kill them off eventually. Also if you get to lay terrain they can't even deploy if you max it out.
Si2

I was flipping thru the army-lists recently (like, who doesn't, right?). Hussites caught my eye and got me to wondering what a Hussite v. Hussite game (in 15mm on standard-sized boards) would be like?

Anyone here gamed this in DBA 2.2? I'm sure it probably produces more than its share of amusing situations. Off-hand, I would think the goal, early in the game, would be to eliminate the other side's Art.

I may be a good soldier, but I am an indifferent table-top general most days. I used to match up my Later Poles against a friend's Hussite army and just get waxed. So I refused to play them. How's that for eliminating a threat? Now I have a war wagon for them, so that should even it up a bit. Thinking about it, perhpas I should take the advice of DKuijt to heart and use those Cav of mine. Or, on the other hand, am I still out of luck because I have an army that is predominately mounted, with only one element of bows and one of blades to actually deal wth the enemy WWg?

Hey Jim remember when you defeated my Later Hungarians by pushing Scibor, the Grand Chancellor, back into a warwagon?