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  #1  
Old 06-13-2003, 11:38 AM
Fabio
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I have painted an Early Libyans army (I/7c) about a month ago and I have made many battles with them against Early Achaemenid Persians (I/60a and I/60c).
I play most of my time solitaire, so I cannot blame poor generalship if the Libyans failed miserably every time.
I know that a Psiloi army such this is hard to use, but about 20 defeats in a row seems a bit too much.
The ability of deploy the terrain do not seem help the poor bastards (I in general put as much bad going as possible to help the Psiloi).
Anyone can suggest me a strategy to give a chance to these guys???
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2003, 08:00 PM
Andrechin
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Given the absence of answers to your question, I guess most here think the matchup is almost hopeless for the Lybians...

Anyhow, I am happy to find another Italian contributing to this forum!

Will you take part to any of the tournements for the Italian championships?

Attilio
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2003, 10:34 PM
Hannibal Ad Portas
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The only thing I can suggest is to never, ever let your psiloi leave the woods to take out the Persian forces. You don't stand much chance against the bows or the cavalry. Put out large woods all over the place and try to hang out inside the woods where the bows can't shoot you and you have a better than even chance against most of the Persians forces (except Auxilia). The psiloi can use their ZOC to suck Persian troops into battle.....keep the psiloi near the side edge of a woods and passing Persians can become locked in your ZOC....this forces them to face you in combat or back up....Maybe you could lure the Persians into a trap? You could put your camp in an open gap behind two sets of woods and put the psiloi in each woods close to the gap....if the Persians take the bait and go for the camp, then you might be able to ambush them. You might have to put some psiloi in the gap to make the trap less obvious....the Persians would love to catch psiloi in the open!!

You also might consider putting lots of rough terrain on the board edges.....the Persians won't like setting up in these. On the first bound, if you get the PIP's, you could use the extra moves allowed to psiloi and move into the woods on your opponent's side. If you are lucky, then you might ZOC his cavalry near a woods and force them into a combat they might lose!! Also, your light chariot general might gamble and reinforce this move....your opponent will likely send light troops to defeat your psiloi in the woods on his side and you might catch them in the open with your LCH....worth a shot!!
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  #4  
Old 06-16-2003, 06:16 AM
Fabio
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Andrechin, sadly my work and family leave me little time for gaming: some hours in the evening yes, but an entire weekend is almost impossible.
It's more than 10 years that I cannot go to the conventions of wargaming in Verona or Padova and I'm a real fanaticus of Avalon Hill, SPI ecc. (I have more than 200 titles!).
Moreover, I have Internet only from about an year, so I have been forced to use 1/72 plastic miniatures for my armies (no shop in Genova sell 15mm miniatures).
For the usual space problem I've based them as 15mm and I don't think that will produce a good impression against "real" 15mm. Now I sometimes are tempted to buy 15mm (or even 6mm: the arguments of Baccus are very persuasive) but I have ALL the production of HAT, Italeri-Zvezda, Revell, Atlantic (these original!)... How can I change scale now?
Well, after this long rant (in Genoa it's called "mugugno" and it's a known trait of us together with parsimony) I can revert to the original topic.
Hannibal, Thank you for the suggestions. I usually put the BG in the center for maximize it's use but your plans can really upset the Persians. I'll try them in the next days and I will you know if have given a victory for the Libyans.
Obviously against another opponent they could work better, it's hard make ambush to yourself...
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2003, 09:36 AM
GAZMAN
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I use early LIbyans quite a lot, I enjoy playing them.
You need plenty of PIPs to win, it is possible. You need to search out those elements that are equal to the Psiloi in combat, in this case go for the Lh element and the bows.
If you set up the terrain then set up the max sized five bits of BG you are allowed. I tend to set them up around the centre with a steep hill on one side - I hope to rush to the top of this on turn one and hold the hill against Ax usualy. Deploy in columns ready to enter BG.
Be on the look out for a killer turn one Psiloi ambush, look for Cv set up near to BG, especially the general - this may be moot, as you are playing against your self and unlikely to set up in a possible ambush position.
I would zero in en masse on the Lh element, it cannot kill the Ps, they can kill it.
Be wary of the Cv, they are instant Psiloi death. Don't be afraid to retreat, block with ZoC, then retreeat into BG, and sweep around. Position for combat carefully to use the flee to put you in other threatening positions. A flee can be used to fall back and cover the camp.
Bows are a pain, in groups of three or more they will kill you, you need to take them on in close combat ASAP, with overlaps if possible. The flee shoudl get you out of thier range if you lose, but if caught, the shooting on the rear QK will finish you off.
So, in short, hamper the Cv with ZoCs from within BG, stopping them moving around, zero in on easy targets that cannot kill you (limited to LH really) and get stuck into the bows.
Si2

[ June 16, 2003, 07:02: Message edited by: GAZMAN ]
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2003, 10:00 AM
GAZMAN
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Thinking on this again, the Libyans rely a lot on feints, deception, hiding and pouncing and the first move ambush. Playing against yourself, you are going to find it difficult as you are going to know exactly what the Libyans are up to.
They will be hamstrung from the first move when your Persian commander doesn't place the cavalry general right next to a patch of rough....
Si2

[ June 16, 2003, 07:01: Message edited by: GAZMAN ]
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2003, 07:30 PM
Joe Mauloni
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Hi Fabio.
I have two suggestions. Have you tried a points system to better balance the Libyans?
There are some here: http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/variants/varpoints.html
Have you considered allowing the Libyans to deploy on two edges of the table or on one of the flank edges?
Good luck!
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2003, 06:54 AM
Fabio
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Thanks to all for the interesting ideas.
You will be pleased to know that finally last night the Libyans have won 4-1, included and last the Persian LCH general in a epic duel with the libyan general! The only libian loss was due to bow shots.
In my previous battles probably I was too obsessed with keeping my Psiloi in BG, this time I have put an oasis in the center and 2 rough and 2 steep hills in the corner.
Then I have launched columns in bold deep flank attacks! The Persian general has rapidly lost control of his troops, the 8-bows that started in column due to BG have had no chance to deploy. The persian losses have been 1 8-bow, 1 Psiloi, 1 LH and the general recoiled against a libyan psiloi.
Your help has been greatly appreciated by my troops (even if having scored 6-1 in 3 close combat may have helped, too...).
Obviously the Libyan had been able to deploy the terrain.
Really, this type of "monolithic" armies (such as those of all Kn etc..) can loss the battle on a single die-roll.
In the next evenings, painting permitting, I will experiment the other tactics that you have suggested.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2003, 07:11 AM
GAZMAN
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I like the Lh libyan general as he can leap off to threaten the enemy camp on a big PIP roll. Nothing causes confusion like your general one base width from camp.
I know this is the later list and I am not sure if it is the right one for the Persians, but I like it!
GAZMAN
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