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Old 02-16-2012, 10:08 AM
David Schlanger's Avatar
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Default Change to MU - Half Basewidth Standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavi View Post
2. MEASUREMENTS
New measurement system. Unnecessary. Renders all play aids worthless. First thing people disliked around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavi View Post
12. TACTICAL MOVES
Unnecessary change as said. You increase board size and speed of everyone as well as shooting ranges. Result is that only flanking is affected, and not by much. I deeply dislike the games that try to be so general that are hard to understand. This is a clear example of this. Give measurements in inches or centimeters, but not in base sizes. That is just annoying.

We made this change, like all of the others, because we thought it was necessary to improve 2.2.

Changing to a Movement Unit Half Basewidth standard has many advantages to recommend it.
Some of the advantages are:
• Avoiding peculiar mixes of measurement systems. Inches and cm in the same rule system is odd.
• Lateral movement down a line suddenly makes sense. No more moving 76.2mm sideways to fit a gap, ending up 3.8mm short of being able to block a hole two base widths over.
• Some minor reduction in the rules (closing the door rule no longer needed)
• Scale independence – 25mm scale would play the same as 15mm scale
• Little or no significant change in comparative movement rates from v2.2
• Creation of a new slot for movement rates that can be used to support some type regrading or new element types (for example, Cataphracts can now be slower than Knights, and Raiders/3Sp can be faster than Blade/4Sp, yet still not as fast as Auxilia or Psiloi)

Finally, when you play it, it just feels right, it feels clean, it feels easy.
We have really nice and cheap gauges available. Wheeling sticks would all remain the same.

DS
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Last edited by David Schlanger; 02-16-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:18 AM
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I agree. The fact that with a 3 MU movement heavy foot no longer needs a special rule to allow it to close the door or move from a position directly behind another element to beside it because it can't move that far but it needs to be able to do those things for the game to work right are big improvements. I also really like being able to use my wheel stick as my measuring device and vice versa.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:57 AM
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Thanks David for listing the advantages. I want to persuade my main, local playing-partner to adopt 2.2+; it is nice to have the rationale behind the changed movement system explained.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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I should add that it is perfectly acceptable to say 300 paces instead of 3 MU during a game with me. I can do the math in my head.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lee View Post
Thanks David for listing the advantages. I want to persuade my main, local playing-partner to adopt 2.2+; it is nice to have the rationale behind the changed movement system explained.
No problem Richard, I hope you are successful with your persuasion!

DS
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:02 PM
Martyn Martyn is offline
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Dave,

Thanks for the explanation, which helps but I feel is incomplete.

Bullet 1 it is easy enough to identify a unit of measure be it cm, mm or inches without creating one.
2 yes it will make things easier.
3 but the rule still exists in the book, so that is of little benefit. You still need the amoeba interpretation as a Hvy inf element behind a deep base (mounted, 5Wb etc) will not have the movement to line up next to from a position directly behind the element (2MU across 1 MU forwards) unless it cuts the corner.
4 yes, a good result.
5 yes, minor changes to movement, slightly faster but not by any appreciable amount.
6 useful for the introduction of new elements if that is the purpose. Perhaps this is the main driver for the change.

I have no real problem with this change as is does not have a disproportionate impact on playing the game. I can see that some are going to be a bit pissed that their measuring sticks are now redundant, but I always make my own.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn View Post
3 – but the rule still exists in the book, so that is of little benefit. You still need the amoeba interpretation as a Hvy inf element behind a deep base (mounted, 5Wb etc) will not have the movement to line up next to from a position directly behind the element (2MU across 1 MU forwards) unless it cuts the corner.
Hi Martyn,

Thanks for the response.

The line edits will call for the removal of the "close the door" language. How you integrate the line edits is your choice

We never intended to remove the amoeba interpretation in as much as something that is not currently in the rules can not be "removed". The amoeba is an accepted way of playing DBA that doesn't cause any real problems. It will be clearly articulated in the line edits.

You don't see anything in the play sheet about it, because there is no intended change in terms of how you would play 2.2+ as compared to 2.2 in this regard.

DS
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Last edited by David Schlanger; 02-16-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:23 PM
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In order to have scale independence the movement rates have to be based on base width an MU being 1/2BW does just that. Now it might work out that for 15mm a MU is 2 cm and for 25mm it is 3 cm but if you use cm instead of MU then you have to specify different movement rates for every different base size. MU also takes care of odd base sizes; if you have your troops based on 3" wide bases because you were trying some home brewed ancient rule set based on Volley and Bayonet you can play 2.2 without having to rebase or figure out what movement rates to use. One set of movement rates and the game from a movement perspective plays the same and you don't need a new set of movement rates.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:26 PM
Martyn Martyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Schlanger View Post
Hi Martyn,
We never intended to remove the amoeba interpretation in as much as something that is not currently in the rules can be "removed". The amoeba is an accepted way of playing DBA that doesn't cause any real problems. It will be clearly articulated in the line edits.
David,

This was part of the concern that Xavi raised in his post on the other thread, that 2.2+ does not cover some of the omissions/required interpretations of 2.2. I am glad if such things as the amoeba interpretation will be included, or alternatively the UG can be specifically referred to (although that probably raises a whole host of other issues and will need revising of the guide itself).
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:37 PM
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I made these MU based measuring/wheel sticks in about two hours one night before testing 2.2+ for the first time. I think square sticks would be easier to do than round.


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