Fanaticus Forum  

Go Back   Fanaticus Forum > Rules > DBA 3.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-06-2012, 11:15 AM
Martyn Martyn is offline
Praetor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 1,266
Default Area Terrain Size

One thing that I am still having trouble with is the size of area terrain features. I know what is intended but the wording is, to me, unclear. What a newbie must make of it I don’t know.

Anyway, this is what the rule states.

‘They should vary in size, but each must each fit inside a rectangle, the length plus width of which totals between 3 and 9 element base widths. Unless the feature is Marsh edging a River or Waterway, the rectangle’s length must not exceed twice its width. Features cannot be less than 1 BW across measured in any direction through the centre and only the last placed can be less than 2 BW across so measured.’

My difficulty is this, the rule gives a maximum size (9 base widths) but this does not identify a minimum size as, to be ridiculous, a grain of sand can fit inside this rectangle.
A feature cannot be less than 1BW in any direction is quite clear and gives a minimum size of 1BW diameter. This is then immediately contradicted by stating that except for the last piece this minimum is 2BW, so the new min is 2BW diameter for all but the last piece.

If the minimum width is 2BW then the minimum rectangle is 4BW, but a 1BW diameter terrain fits in a 2BW rectangle. So where does the 3BW rectangle come in?

Can anybody shed some light on this?
__________________
Martyn

Some of us will win and some of us will lose, The strong will survive.
Some of us will fall, Some of us won't get out of here alive.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-06-2012, 11:55 AM
john svensson john svensson is offline
Centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: York County, PA
Posts: 312
Default

I'm probably way off and don't have the full written rule in front of me, unless you repeated it completely above, but when you ask what is the minimum size...isn't that the 3 BW? And if 1BW is a minimum width...then the other leg (length) must be a minimum of 2 BW in order to get to the 3BW minimum for the rectangle. So, you can not have a 1 BW by 1.5 BW rectangle, for instance. But ,as you note, it would seem that a 2BW by 2BW piece would be the minimum size up until the last terrain piece is placed. Is that your interpretation also? John
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-06-2012, 12:12 PM
badmoon's Avatar
badmoon badmoon is offline
Foederati
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn View Post


‘They should vary in size, but each must each fit inside a rectangle, the length plus width of which totals between 3 and 9 element base widths. Unless the feature is Marsh edging a River or Waterway, the rectangle’s length must not exceed twice its width. Features cannot be less than 1 BW across measured in any direction through the centre and only the last placed can be less than 2 BW across so measured.’

The minimum size is give as 3BW, if we take 1BW to be 40mm then this gives an area feature of 80mm x 40mm. I take the last sentence to mean that the smallest possible area feature can only be used if it is the last feature to be placed, thus preventing a board littered with "postage stamp" terrain.

At least, that is what I think Phil meant.....
__________________
Cogito ergo doleo......
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-06-2012, 12:30 PM
Martyn Martyn is offline
Praetor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 1,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john svensson View Post
I'm probably way off and don't have the full written rule in front of me, unless you repeated it completely above,
That is as the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john svensson View Post
but when you ask what is the minimum size...isn't that the 3 BW?
Therein lies the problem, for the terrain to fit in a rectangle 3BW it could be 1x2BW, or 1x1BW, or 0.5x1BW, etc all of which fit in the rectangle. I raised this point with Phil and he replied that there is separate restriction on minimum sizes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john svensson View Post
And if 1BW is a minimum width...then the other leg (length) must be a minimum of 2 BW in order to get to the 3BW minimum for the rectangle.
As above 1x1BW fits inside the rectangle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john svensson View Post
So, you can not have a 1 BW by 1.5 BW rectangle, for instance. But ,as you note, it would seem that a 2BW by 2BW piece would be the minimum size up until the last terrain piece is placed. Is that your interpretation also? John
Yes, which as you will note does not fit inside a 3BW rectangle, whereas a 1x1BW terrain as the last feature meets the requirement for minimum dimension and fits in the rectangle, but I don't think it is what was intended, hence my request for illumination.
__________________
Martyn

Some of us will win and some of us will lose, The strong will survive.
Some of us will fall, Some of us won't get out of here alive.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-06-2012, 12:45 PM
Menacus Secundus Menacus Secundus is offline
Centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Blackheath, SE London
Posts: 448
Default

Martyn

I think the key is that feature has to fit in a rectangle the length plus width of which is between 3 and 9 BW.

Something that was no more than 1 BW square would have a length plus width of 2 BW, and 2 isn't between 3 and 9. Your grain of sand example would also have a length plus width <3 BW.

But I think you are right that all except the last piece will effectively have a minimum length plus width of 4BW.

Denis
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-06-2012, 01:05 PM
Martyn Martyn is offline
Praetor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 1,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menacus Secundus View Post
Martyn

I think the key is that feature has to fit in a rectangle the length plus width of which is between 3 and 9 BW.

Something that was no more than 1 BW square would have a length plus width of 2 BW, and 2 isn't between 3 and 9. Your grain of sand example would also have a length plus width <3 BW.
but it still fits in that box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menacus Secundus View Post
But I think you are right that all except the last piece will effectively have a minimum length plus width of 4BW.

Denis
I just feel that it is badly worded and open to alternative interpretation. If it said that the length + breadth of the terrain had to be between 3 and 9BW then that is better, after all that is what he means. These rectangles just complicate matters.

We could keep the requirement for the minimum dimension through the centre to be 2BW, except the last placed feature which can have one axis of min 1BW. This gives us our one example of a terrain feature min of 3BW, length + breadth.
__________________
Martyn

Some of us will win and some of us will lose, The strong will survive.
Some of us will fall, Some of us won't get out of here alive.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-06-2012, 01:24 PM
geekmeter11's Avatar
geekmeter11 geekmeter11 is offline
Centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lynn, MA
Posts: 448
Default

This is what our club uses. The minimum size 1x1 BW maximum size 5x4 BW.
From page 8 and 9 of the Unofficial Guide to DBA:

An empty board is pretty boring. You’ve got to have some scenery to spice things up. In DBA, scenery is represented by terrain pieces. There are two kinds: area terrain pieces and linear terrain pieces. See the table on the next page for a complete list of terrain types.
Area Terrain Pieces
An area terrain piece represents a contiguous area of uniform terrain. So it’s a single area of woods or marshy ground or what have you.
To be legal, an area terrain piece must obey the following rules:
BUAs may be polygonal or oval, all others must be roughly oval.
It must be at least one base width across in all directions.
The terrain piece must be able to fit inside an imaginary rectangle whose length plus width is no greater than nine base widths.

Woods, BUAs, gentle hills, steep hills, dunes, and oases may not be longer than twice their width.

Gentle hills and steep hills must slope up to a crest line. The crest line is important because it blocks line-of-sight.

Linear Terrain Pieces
A linear terrain piece represents a feature that runs from one edge of the game board to the opposite edge.
To be legal, a waterway must obey the following rules:
It must be 200 to 600 paces across.
At least half of its length must be no more than 400 paces across.

To be legal, a river must obey the following rules:
It cannot be more than one base width across.
It cannot be longer than 1½ times the distance between its ends. This limits the amount of “wiggle” that can be put in the course of the river.

To be legal, a road must obey the following rules:
It cannot be more than one base width across.
It may bend only to avoid area terrain pieces.

Terrain Placement
Terrain pieces are also restricted in how they may be placed on the game board. See page 16 for a complete description of the rules governing terrain placement.
Terrain Affects
Each terrain type is classed as good going, bad going, impassable, or special. (Note that any part of the game board that doesn’t have a terrain piece on it is considered good going.)
The affects of the different terrain types are covered in detail where appropriate (for example, the affects on distant shooting are covered in the distant shooting section).
__________________
"Rex et Lex" - The King and the Law
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-06-2012, 04:10 PM
Martin Smith's Avatar
Martin Smith Martin Smith is offline
Praetor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn View Post
but it still fits in that box.



I just feel that it is badly worded and open to alternative interpretation.
This was brought up a fair while ago, when the first draft appeared. I think there has been a flat refusal (by those with the power to change the wording) to acknowledge that INSIDE the smallest dimension listed means the item can be SMALLER than the dimension listed.
Martyn, I think you're dead right.
Martin

ps The intent MAY have been that, at the smaller end of the scale, the rectangle fits inside the terrain piece, not the terrain piece inside the rectangle.....but that's a wild stab in the dark, which is what I'll get if I contradict the powers that be

Last edited by Martin Smith; 02-06-2012 at 04:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-06-2012, 09:37 PM
Dangun Dangun is offline
Centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn View Post
Features cannot be less than 1 BW across measured in any direction through the centre and only the last placed can be less than 2 BW across so measured.
I think we might be misreading the third line.

The first line sets a minimum size (3BW rectangle.)

The third line is intended to ensure that this rectangle is not ridiculously thin. (For example a 0.5 x 2.5BW is not allowed.)

The third line also intends to ensure that terrain is not ridiculously shaped. (For example a barbell shaped piece is not allowed if the bar of the 'barbell' is less than 1BW wide.)

The last half of the third line, "only the last placed...," is as someone else has pointed out just to make sure that there is only one piece of terrain smaller than a 4BW rectangle.

So adding this up doesn't it mean that the minimum terrain size is a 2BW diameter circular terrain piece, except for the last placed which can be a 1BW diameter circle.

I agree that the wording is bad, but I am pretty sure that this is the intention.
__________________
Cheers

Dangun (Nicholas Spratt)
Hong Kong

Last edited by Dangun; 02-07-2012 at 05:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-07-2012, 06:40 AM
Martyn Martyn is offline
Praetor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 1,266
Default

Thanks for the comments, I just wanted to make sure I was not completely off target before going back to Phil (again).
__________________
Martyn

Some of us will win and some of us will lose, The strong will survive.
Some of us will fall, Some of us won't get out of here alive.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.