Littoral Landings - When to do?

May I please request help from the fanatici? The query relates to my on-going 'Solo DBA'. I am trying to write something to decide whether or not the non-player general (NPG) controlled by 'Solo DBA' decides to do a littoral landing if their army has littoral terrain. The trouble is that I am not particularly good at using littoral landings to good effect. I don't usually do them when I play, because I find that dividing my army is likely to lead to disaster.

What factors would make you inclined to chance a littoral landing? What factors would make you avoid doing one?

At the moment I have worked out that it is probably better to do them if you are the attacker, because then the defender has to deploy before they know that you are reserving elements for a littoral landing. I also think that an enemy camp too close to the waterway's edge is a tempting target but enemy troops in a reserve line are a deterrent.

Is there anything else? I would really appreciate any input.

Thank you in anticipation.

A few factors that would increase the chance me doing a landing:

i) Enemy predominantly slow (foot, nellies, knights).
ii) My own army has a fair lot of fast troops, to rapidly put pressure on the enemy from two directions.
iii) My army has no unresponsive troops (El, Art, Hd, WWg).
iv) I'm unlikely to win a frontal slog.

Originally Posted by Richard Lee

What factors would make you inclined to chance a littoral landing? What factors would make you avoid doing one?

At the moment I have worked out that it is probably better to do them if you are the attacker, because then the defender has to deploy before they know that you are reserving elements for a littoral landing. I also think that an enemy camp too close to the waterway's edge is a tempting target but enemy troops in a reserve line are a deterrent.

If both players are Littoral, the attacker should NEVER do one if 2+ defending elements are on the boats.

I'm not sure how you can make them work well in solitaire play, because a large part of their impact is psychological.

I almost always do one, attacking or defending, because they virtually guarantee me psychological dominance through the whole game.

Thank you, Andreas and David. That gives me something to think about.

Originally Posted by David Kuijt

If both players are Littoral, the attacker should NEVER do one if 2+ defending elements are on the boats.

I'm not sure how you can make them work well in solitaire play, because a large part of their impact is psychological.

I almost always do one, attacking or defending, because they virtually guarantee me psychological dominance through the whole game.

I doubt David needs to make a littoral landing to gain psychological dominance.

As it is almost impossible for a solo wargamer to "surprise" his opponent, I recommend almost never making a landing. What you do is to give the opponent an opportunity to crush the landing element with whatever part of his 12 stand army he feels will do the job and hold off the non-landing part with the rest of his army.

It is possible there is a risk of losing your camp to the landing forces, but recapture of the camp is highly likely if care is taken, as the enemy gets no combat benefit (the plus two) from occupying an enemy camp. If you have not already lost two stands you do not lose the game if the camp changes hands, unless, of course, you have put one of your valuable twelve units in the camp (and so given up the camp follower leaving the camp ungarrisoned if you need to move that garrison element.)

You may detect a disinclation on my part to put a part of my army into my camp or BUA. If you want to reduce your field army to 11 stands, leave the "garrison" unit near the camp so it can counter attack or interfere with the enemy attempt to capture the camp. A shooter element (bow, warwagon, artillery) may be the best choice for this task. (Depending on what element you expect the enemy to occupy your camp with.) Bow for example are a four against mounted, but only a two against foot. On the other hand, artillery are a four shooting anything.

Note that if the enemy in your camp loses combat by one pip (say 6 to 5) it is destroyed as it can't safely retreat from combat when in a camp. One of your units in your camp has the same problem, at least the camp follower doesn't count against your losses.

Did I mention the retreat into the waterway problem with the landing? Your landing units may be able to make double or even more moves, if you get enough PIPs, (Ps, LH, sometimes warband if there is a defender in the right place) otherwise the landing force sits often with its back to the waterway and no place to retreat. if the side of the landing forces are adjacent to the waterway, there may be in theory some safe place to retreat, but the attacker may have some way to make that expectation go away (example, multiple Ps moves on the first turn.)

If you have a good army, why do you want to put a significant part of it out of command radius and demand high PIP rolls even if it isn't out of command to move both parts of your army effectively. Friends don't let friends make littoral landings, unless of course your name is David.

Originally Posted by David Kuijt

If both players are Littoral, the attacker should NEVER do one if 2+ defending elements are on the boats.

Could you expand on this David? I am very bad at littoral landings. Almost every time I have tried one it has been a disaster. My instinct in these circumstances would be to take elements with an inbuilt superiority to those "on the boats" and try to ambush them with an adjacent landing, especially if they numbered less than four. I am quite prepared to accept that this is a mistake, but why?
Scott

You can't try and ambush them when they land after you.

Ah yes, the light dawns. But presumably for the same reason.
Scott

Originally Posted by Scott Russell

Surely the defending elements "on the boats" will land first?

No, why would you think that? The attacker always takes the first turn, so their landing party lands first.

Excellent discussion with excellent points.

@Baron, I am not trying to make the non-payer general (NPG) do littoral landings often. I had intended to ignore the possibility because I share some of your views on them. However, when play-testing yesterday (defending with New Kingdom Egyptians against Syro-Canaanites) I found that I ignored the possibility of the NPG doing a littoral landing because 'Solo DBA' did not contain any method for the NPG to reserve troops for a littoral landing. When playing against humans I would have to consider the possability of an enemy littoral landing when deploying as defender.