Rivers of glue...

[El' Jocko]

Originally Posted by broadsword

Okay, you shimmy yours, and I'll shimmy mine. I raise the issue because I sensed that if hills are too high, they cause problems with the lining up of groups against each other, where part of one group is over a hill. You all assure me that by magic, this issue dissolves. When my elements are one-eighth to one-quarter inch off his, due to part of his line being on the hill, and he claims the end element is ZOC'ed, and I claim it isn't, who is right?

There really isn't any problem here. Yes, moving an element up a particularly steep hill means that the element actually moves farther in 3-D space than it does on the plane of the board. And to the extent that this matters, I would argue that players take it into account without even thinking about it. After all, when I move an element, I measure in the real 3-D space of the board. An element of blade moving up a steep hill doesn't move 2 inches in the plane of the board. It moves 2 inches in 3-D space, and somewhat less in the plane of the board.

And yes, if there's a line of elements, some of which are moving up a steep hill and some are on the flat part of the board, the elements on the flat can move farther in the plane of the board than the elements that move up the hill. In practical terms, one of two things happens in this case. Either the line wheels a little bit, or the elements in good going move a little less than their maximum move. I would guess that very few players are aware of this, they just do it as a natural consequence of measuring the moves.

And honestly, on a hill steep enough to make this a matter of more than 2 or 3mm, my biggest concern will be to keep my elements from slipping back down the hill. Often times, I simply accept that my element is going to slide down to the bottom, and its real position is reached through some mutual agreement with my opponent.

- Jack

[El' Jocko]

Originally Posted by broadsword

And what makes DBA better than Lost Battles?

DBA isn't better than Lost Battles. And Lost Battles isn't better than DBA. At least not in any meaningful sense. Seriously, we're talking apples and oranges here. In fact, the games are so different that it really isn't possible to compare the games at all. The best you could do is to compare the underlying game design philosophies. And if you want to do that, I suggest a new thread.

- Jack

[broadsword]

Hi El Jocko. I wasn't comparing design philosophies, just essentially the lack of clarity, and the obvious unfinished-ness of DBA.

The "players take it into account without even thinking about it" bit in so many of the DBA moves, is what I find particularly off-putting, as someone attempting to conscript newbies into the hobby, who are seasoned, veteran boardgamers.

[Alan Lauder]

Originally Posted by broadsword

Hi El Jocko. I wasn't comparing design philosophies, just essentially the lack of clarity, and the obvious unfinished-ness of DBA.

The "players take it into account without even thinking about it" bit in so many of the DBA moves, is what I find particularly off-putting, as someone attempting to conscript newbies into the hobby, who are seasoned, veteran boardgamers.

I do understand what you are saying, Broadsword, although I'm not sure I agree. What boardgames are you thinking of that are comparable with DBA in the context of this discussion? I appreciate we have probably exhausted this debate - just interested in what you are referring to here.

Alan

[david kuijt]

Originally Posted by broadsword

The "players take it into account without even thinking about it" bit in so many of the DBA moves, is what I find particularly off-putting, as someone attempting to conscript newbies into the hobby, who are seasoned, veteran boardgamers.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Speaking as a seasoned, veteran boardgamer who has made the transition, EVERY miniature game (not just DBA) includes (as part of the collective understanding) a whole bunch of things that are alien and off-putting to boardgamers -- and the practical issue of how to move groups on 3-D terrain that recently attracted your attention is one of them.

[Alex Bostwick]

If you have issues with a few microns here and there, I recommend using a compass to measure. Or perhaps a length of kite string with marked increments of one inch. That way, when measuring across a non-uniform piece of terrain (in this instance, a hill), the string will conform to the contours, and your dudes will always move exactly as far you want them to. It sounds to me as if you're using the wrong measuring tool.

Personally, I've never had a problem with this. I mean, even if the dudes march a little farther, or a little shorter, what if they're tired? Or what if they're just really, really motivated? You try running up a hill at bunch of other dudes with pointy sticks. I'd be out of breath halfway up, and three-quarters of the way I'd be ready for a cookie and a nap, satisfied that I gave it a good try.

Whatever the case might be, I don't think that a few atomic nanometers lost or gained is going to make a difference in a battle. It hasn't ever for me, and I've played thousands of games.

-A-Bos

[broadsword]

It actually isn't the "a few mm here or there" that is my question, My question is "which of the two dudes actually has to do the shimmying to straighten everything out?"...

[winterbadger]

Originally Posted by Alex Bostwick

If you have issues with a few microns here and there, I recommend using a compass to measure.

Oh, Alex!

[deon]

I've just finished playing a couple of games with rivers and BUAs and I'm not sure what the problem is.

If you are the attacker and your opponent places a river, then as I understand it - the attacker can choose to number the table edge having one end of the river as 4.5.6. So theres a 4 in 6 chance that once the defender has revealed his postions the attacker can then concentrate his forces on which ever side of the river has both a)- room to deploy and b)- a qualitative advantage.

Both games we played last night were with 2 'defensive' armies, a river, road, bua and woods plus steep hill. Both games were fun , mobile and tactically challenging ( and I won them ) They included fighting in the BUA and a roadhoggingrivercrossing flank attack by pike and Cav. Clearly, Im missing something. If anyone wants to use a river in tournament against me Im more than happy, for surely then I will understand the problem

Deon

[Captain Rabbit]

The term we use around here for players with an unhealthy love of the ruler is a "douzième-er" (its a watchmaking term meening I think roughly 1000th of a parisian inch.
Everything sounds much more sexier in french :-)