Element Loss for General

[Dale Hurtt]

In my last game (http://www.fanaticus.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=8985), the enemy General recoiled off of the table. In the thrid paragraph of the DBA campaign rules it states that:

"Loss of a main protagonist's general and or camp is penalized by the transfer of two extra troop elements from his field army to his reserve at the end of the battle in addition to those destroyed during the battle. This simulates desertion by demoralized troops."

I understand that the General returns after the battle as he was not destroyed. I understand how many prestige points I get for the General running. But as my English has been bad of late I was wondering what others' opinion was regarding whether the General was a "loss" and therefore demoralized his troops.

I thought yes, as he was considered "lost" according to page 11, sentence 1 (the "Winning and Losing" section), so he was a loss for demoralization purposes. But because the campaign rules specifically states "routing" troops are returned, I thought he could also be classified as "found". :)

Personally, I think his cowardly rout demoralizes the troops, causing two elements to desert before he returns.

As always, thanks in advance,

Dale

[Stephen Webb]

The loss of the General by any means, be it destruction in combat or by shooting, recoiling or fleeing of the board, requires the loss of two more elements.

The general's element does not return either. One of the other elements becomes the general for the next battle.

[Dale Hurtt]

The general's element does not return either. One of the other elements becomes the general for the next battle.
How do you figure? I was looking at the rule on page 15, section RESULTS OF A BATTLE, paragraph 2, sentence 2, that states:

"Elements that leave the table return to their field army after the battle, as do camp followers."

I don't care so much if the element gets demoted; I can always assign it to another Light Horse element. But by saying it does not "return", it sounds like you think it is destroyed.

Help me out here. I cannot find the reference.

Thanks,

Dale

[Tony Aguilar]

Any element, general or otherwise, that is removed from the board due to lack of having a recoil, trampled by an elephant, fleeing off the edge of a board, or direct combat is considered destroyed for the purpose of that DBA game.

[Tony Aguilar]

Help me out here. I cannot find the reference.



Look at "Winning and Losing" at the bottom of page 11...it's all right there.

[Dale Hurtt]

Please note I am talking about the DBA campaign rules, which states on page 15, section RESULTS OF A BATTLE, paragraph 2, sentence 2:

"Elements that leave the table return to their field army after the battle, as do camp followers."

That sure seems to override page 11. Put another way, the element is lost for the battle, but not for the campaign.

Dale

[Bob. (and his dog)]

I cannot find any reference to Steve's point on the general coming back. Do note this
"Any element of the field army can be nominated at the start of a battle to include the general." This is, I think, a lack of editing from 1st edition to 2nd edition which has explicit generals. Play it that way as it is written.

There are two outcomes for an element during a battle -- Destroyed or moved off the table. There are different consequences:

"Elements destroyed by combat are transferred from the players' field armies to their reserves. Elements that leave the table return to their field army after the battle, as do camp followers. "

This seems to me to mean that if the element containing the general leaves the table in a battle, in the next battle, in that campaign year, it can come back and be re-nominated per earlier rule as the general again. So if you had an army of 11 Ps and 1 Cav(G) and the Cav was destroyed it would not come back that campaign year. In the next battle, you would nominate a Ps as Gen. If the Cav just left the battlefield, then in the next battle it could come back and be the general.

[neldoreth]

In my campaigns, if the general leaves the table, it has been lost. Even if it was found later, it was still lost, and so I would definitely consider that to require the army that lost the general to remove two elements from its army and send them to the reserves...

Hope that helps!
n.