View Full Version : Yellow River Blues - Canberra Kriegspielers DBA Campaign for 2009

02-22-2009, 09:37 PM
Once Again the Canberra Kriegspielers have started an ongoing Campaign for the year.

This years event is 1260AD centered around China. The armies available are

Yuan China - IV/48 Yuan Chinese
Southern Sung - III/61 Sung Chinese
Mongolia - IV/35 Mongol Conquest
Korea - III/56 Koroyo Dynasty Korean
Dali - III/36 Nan Chao
Japan - III/54 Early Samurai
Annam - III/59 Medieval Vietnamese
Pagan - III/9b Burmese
Khmer/Champa - III/23 Khmer and Cham
Sukothai - IV/40 Siamese
Uighur - III/11a Uighur
Srivijaya - IV/37a Malay or Sumatran
Orissa - III/10c Hindu Indian

Of the Fanatici - We have myself as the Shogun, Aristonicus as the Khan of the Traditional Mongol heartland, Sun of York is the King of Annam, Oceanborn as the Khmer King and Andrew Ford is the King of Sukothai

A breif synopsis of the first session follows:

Spring 1260 Annam launches an assault on Pagan with the assistance of Sukothai. Battle of Pegu sees the Burmese with Srivijayan support crush the invaders. The Siamese contingent rode down the Srivijayans but in the centre the Burmese succeeded in cutting down the Vietnamese foot.

Spring 1260 The Burmese pursue the fleeing Annamese to the gates of Cao Hoi. At this point the Viets fall back and the city surrenders to the Burmese

Spring 1260 Orissa invades Pagan. The Burmese return to fight off the new threat. Battle of Ava sees a narrow victory to the Hindus.

Spring 1260 - Uighur sweep down upon Yuan China. Battle of Ningxia sees the Uighur gain some initial successes against the Yuan right flank before thier own centre collapses and thier commander is killed.

Spring 1260 - Mongols descend on the ailing Yuan and attack Shangdu. The city resists and a seige ensues.

The Prestige Table as at the end of Spring is
Siam - 4.2
Yuan - 2.9
Pagan 2.9
Orissa 2.2
All others 0


02-24-2009, 03:23 AM
Hi there Macbeth.

Are you still following your Variant Campaign Rules as posted on Fanaticus?


Ciao baby,

02-24-2009, 06:31 PM
Hi Richard,

we are still following those variants (although I had forgotten that they were posted up on Fanaticus)

To all the interested parties out there that enquired about the modifications in my previous campaigns - you can follow the link.


02-24-2009, 09:25 PM
I think they are looking good. I still find it hard to get a regular DBA game here, so I am setting up a solo campaign. I have gotten quite good at solo gaming, so I think it will work out - I know I have attempted this before, but this time I'll make it :-)

Phil's campaign rules + David Lawrence's Variants + Programmed Leaders for Campaigns are the tools of trade. I will not actually play myself, I will program all the leaders. Britain circa 400AD, Late Roman - Saxon - Pict - Sub-Roman British.

I have been working on some solo DBA variants, but they have a ways to go (normal DBA plays better :-). Until I can think of good way to program movement (games that are good solo usually use hexes or sections) I can't crack it.

Your variants smooth out some of the spikes and troughs, which will make it easy on my conscience - I won't feel like I have to play one side harder when it is being hammered - the goodie cards will be there in the spring. I want to try Programmed Leaders as it stands, but I will likely leave out the combat die modifiers for the same reason. Or perhaps I will feed prestige back into it somehow. Programmed Leaders has one called "Feeble Coward" who I might adjust to 'Overly Cautious'. Theodosius II achieved a great deal, but though he started a war he was no campaigner. His fortifications are still a feature of Istanbul - in the words of Lynda Garland: "weak leaders build great walls".


02-25-2009, 06:34 PM
I have found that we get some interesting results from the Feeble programmed leader when it is used to cover an absent player. Such armies almost never fight, so that if they survive the year there is almost always bonus prestige. :)

I tend to ignore the combat modifiers for programmed leaders as well. One of the things we do when Programmed leaders are required, is to not dice for them until an action is required. This way we don't get everyone declaring war on the feeble leader to snap up their external territory.

Good to see you back here Richard


03-03-2009, 06:02 AM
>>Siam - 4.2

Macbeth, what is the decimal doing there in your prestige points?

03-03-2009, 06:28 PM
I use my famous rating system to balance out the prestige points in the campaign battles.

1) Rate both armies based on actual strength (ie previously destroyed elements don't count). Agression is not factored into the mix
2) +4 to rating for the defender and a furhter +4 to generals with a goodie card that can be used in battle.
3) Rate the allied contingents - they add to their side's rating if any elements in the contingent shoot, are shot at or come within a base width of the enemy.

When the battle is over the prestige is modified by the factor of
opposing side's rating/own side's rating

In the rare occasions where a main protagonist does not take part in the battle and all the fighting on one side is done by contingents - the main protagonist's army rating is not included. We have had only one occasion where this occurred - during the campaign 'Blood In The Snow, Mud In The Eyes' back in 2006 when David Angelosante's Teutonic Order invaded Prussia (ruled by John Harrower). The Prussians put their entire army inside a Marsh and a Wood whilst their Moldavian allies arrived behind the Teutonic line and by skillful use of shooting on the rear (back when Phil's interpretation of the rear shooting definition was at its wackiest) three Moldavian elements (2x3Bw and 1x2Ps) succeeded in defeating a full strength T.O. army :(

The disparity in ratings was 57 to 271 and saw the Moldavians gain 14.7 prestige for their troubles.


03-04-2009, 07:46 PM
<...brace yourself before asking a statistician about decimals...>

thankyou for your excellent answer. I will revisit balance ratings once I have sorted out movement.

I am sorting out turn sequence, which is a bit complicated with 4 programmed leaders. So, A invades B, B elects to give battle and moves up, B loses and retreats. Has B had a turn? It seems right to resolve campaign movement before battles, otherwise it gets to the last to players to move and everyone has fought and can't send allies etc. But all my movement is "automatic" - even the attack by A was as automatic as Bs response. Next season I will have a pretty solid turn sequence to work from. Like "1. Movement and attacks (these count as moves, responses to these do not)". If this doesn't iron things out, I will try to resolve battles as they come - but for other reasons <that escape me!> this hasn't worked well.


03-05-2009, 06:00 PM
I have always been a big fan of the alternate movement format as they are written in the DBA Campaign rules.

Over the years I have been plauged by the problem of having players being sidelined when there is action in another corner of the map and more than once it has been suggested to me that resolving all movement and then all battles would allow for a quicker resolution of a turn and allow for multiple battles to be fought at once.

In theory this is true - in practice if you have simultaneuous movement then the more likely result is that one player will be jumped by multiple players at multiple locations - either they are only allowed to fight one battle (so might lose other territory) or they fight each battle in turn and so the game is not speeded up by much. Additionally if there were to be multiple battles then a player sending contingents might be limited to sending only one in a season unless they can run between tables if there are two battles being fought. There are further complications where a player had planned to send contingents and instead has to defend their own territory.

However I am working on a series of rules for campaign where the orders are all sent in by email and resolved by the controller. Players will then be notified about what battles they are involved in and be required to reslove them by the end of a playing period.

The plan is that orders would have the following components
Stance - cautious/aggressive
Action - Invade/Support/Position
Location - where they are moving to and through

The combination of Stance, Action and Rating of the army determines whether two armies fight when they meet or one of them retreats.


03-05-2009, 07:19 PM
I am not sold on either way yet. I don't have the problem of sidelined players, but I *can* suspend things. I am not out to speed things up.

When I play alternate moves, it seems like too much is happening in isolation, and so I wanted to get everyone's movement done first. The 'fog of war'.

Like this (all decisions done with "Programmed leaders for campaigns" - the numerals indicate the point at which a player takes their "turn"):

Spring. SRB declare war on Picts. Saxons declare war on LIR. SRB Elect not to invade, but move(1) to attack nearest war-declared enemy - the Picts. Picts invade (2). SRB elects to give battle. Saxons and LIR both refuse to aid SRB. STOP HERE - BATTLE BREWING. Saxons invade(3) LIR. LIR stands siege, does nothing. Saxons fail to capture city, lose 1 Ps. LIR moves(4) to attack nearest war-declared enemy - the sieging Saxons. SRB refuse to aid LIR. Saxons are defenders for deployment. STOP HERE

At this point, run the two battles and reactions, and Spring is ended.

I can see that the allies thing might get me in a tangle, and so I will need rules about when to send a contingent and when not to. Will there only ever be two battles in a season? Is that bad? Do I need Stance/Action/Rating? A fifth player? After a couple of seasons I will decide if it is working, or if I have to go back to twiddling the alternate method.


Sun of York
04-26-2009, 06:28 PM
This post is just to establish the link.

Paris of the Orient.

Which is actually Shanghai, but at least that is closer to my new Kingdom of Annam than York is.

More to follow ...

Sun of York
04-26-2009, 10:14 PM
The Year of the Piggie has already been reported.

The war with Pagan started with a promising battle that ended up as much a fiasco as the future Bay of Pigs tradition.

My forces retreated to Cua Hoi, but then pulled back further to Thang Long abandoning Cua Hoi to the Pagan.

The strategic situation did not favour the Pagan and soon we were again fighting for control of Cua Hoi. As we settled in for a siege word came thru that the Pagan were rushing to attack again.

We placed our mighty bolt shooter - Elephant Gun - across the road and as the brave Pagan streamed down towards us we calmly shot them down. Four heavenly bolts took care of the invader. Our Thai allies arrived in their rear and the Pagan fled back to their capital, mortally wounded as a fighting force.

Taking full advantage, the Kingdom of Orissa arrived at the Pagan capital and put paid to them forever.

We finished the Year of the Piggie busily recruiting.

Sun of York
04-27-2009, 04:19 AM
The start of the year ... "known as the rat" ... promised to be ugly.

The Kingdoms of both Dali (to the north) and Angkor (to the south) both declared war on the pacified south, also known as Annam.

The Angkor struck first advancing to the very walls of Tra Kieu where they promptly stopped, in awe of the mighty Annam bolt shooter.

The noble Kingdom of Sukothai again came to the assistance of Annam. This time plenty of time was available for them to come up on the right flank.

Bloody fighting took place with the Annam general in the thick of things. His bravery meant the bolt shooter had targets and that his troops were inspired to glory and prevailed over the attackers.

The Angkor lost twice the number of troops than they inflicted and bloodied they withdrew from the field.

They wished their northern allies better fortune.

04-28-2009, 07:41 PM
After a hiatus because my elder warband's Athletics Championships clashed with the club meeting - here is a breif synopsis of the second session.

Summer 1260 - Annam attacks Paganese held Cua Hoi (captured the previous season). The Burmese opt not to fight for the city and a seige ensues.

Summer 1260 - Srivijaya attacks Angkor. Battle of Panduranga sees the Srivijyayans soundly defeated as their warbands are trampled by Khmer elephants.

Summer 1260 - Pagan marches to the relief of Cua Hoi. Annam's beseiging forces turn to fight. Second battle of Cua Hoi sees the Burmese cut down by artillery fire giving victory (and the city) to Annam. Sun of York has given an excellent report on this.

Summer 1260 - Orissa continues its offensive into Pagan with an attack on their capital. The battered remnants of the Paganese army retreats into the city to bolster the defences. The city holds out.

Summer 1260 - Nan Chao attacks the Yuan at Kaifeng. The Yuan refuse to fight. After a short seige the city surrenders.

Summer 1260 - Mongol seige of Shangdu continues. With no relief in sight from the Yuan emperor the city surrenders.

Summer 1260 - Japan attacks Sung China. Battle of Fuzhou sees the Samurai fall to the Sung with their Korean allies after a breif (and heroic) but bloody fight.

Summer 1260 - The Yuan ignore the attacks on their own territory and pursue revenge against the Uighur. The bloodied Uighur army falls back forcing the Yuan to lay siege to Kucha. The city holds.

Autumn 1260 - Orissans break into the Paganese capital and wipe out the defenders. Pagan is now a vassal of Orissa.

Autumn 1260 - Nan Chao marches on Dadu (the Yuan capital) and lays seige. The city holds out.

Autumn 1260 - Mongols continue their offensive into Yuan territory and attack Ningxia. Their assaults are thrown back.

The Yuan can see the writing on the wall and voluntarily submit to Nan Chao.

Autumn 1260 - Yuan army breaks into Kucha and captures the town.

At the end of 1260 the prestige table stands at:
Sukothai - 8.2
Annam - 7.7
Nan Chao - 5.0
Korea - 4.9
Orissa - 4.2
Angkor - 4.0
Yuan - 3.9
Mongols - 3.0
Pagan - 2.8
Sung - 2.0
Japan - 0.0
Srivijaya - 0.0
Uighurs - 0.0


07-04-2009, 06:59 AM
After all the excitement of the LKL Tournament and my trip to Sweden we have settled back into the DBA Campaign routine once more. A breif synopsis of session 3

1261 Spring Angkor invades Annam. Sukothai supports Annam. Battle of Tra Kieu sees the invading Khmers cut down by enfilading Annamese artillery fire before the Siamese fall on their flank.

1261 Spring Dali invades Annam. Both Orissa and Sukothai support Annam. Battle of Cua Hoi sees the invading Pikes face down the Hindu elephants whilst the rest of their army comes to grips with the Annamese defenders. After initial success the invaders were driven off. The Siamese contingent arrives too late to participate.

1261 Spring Yuan invades Uighurs. Uighurs sit inside their capital Karabalasagun and hold back the besiegers.

1261 Summer Annam invades Angkor. Japan supports Angkor. Battle of Wat Phu sees the Ankor line collapse due to poor communication in the jungles. The Annamese cut them down piecemeal. The Japanese contingent arrives but does not get to the combat line in time.

1261 Summer Orissa invades Srivijaya with help from both their Paganese vassals and Sukothai. Battle of Samudra sees the Srivijayans land on the Hindu flank and manage to cut their way into the enemy line. However poor communications meant that the main army could not move up in time to support this force. Eventually it was wiped out giving victory to Orissa. The Paganese failed to arrive and Sukothai whilst arriving did not participate in the battle.

1261 Summer Uighurs sally forth from Karabalasagun. Battle of Karabalasagun sees the Yuan forces driven off with serious losses.

1261 Summer Korea invades Japan. Battle of Hakata sees the Koreans soundly defeated when a unit of Samurai charges out of a fortified village into their midst.

1261 Summer Japan pursues the Koreans. The Koreans shelter within Pusan but it falls to a fanatical Japanese assault. The Korean army is wiped out.

1261 Autumn Annam continues it offensive into Angkor. The capital is besieged, and quickly surrenders. Angkor becomes a vassal of Annam.

1261 Autumn Orissa drives further into Srivijaya. The Capital is besieged but holds out against the invaders.

1261 Autumn Mongols invade Yuan territory and besiege Kucha. The battered Yuan army holds back the invaders.

1261 Autumn Japanese offensive into Korea continues. The capital, Kaegyong is besieged but throws back the attacks.

1261 Autumn Sukothai attacks Srivijaya. The Srivijayan army bolsters the defence of the city of Kedah and holds off the invaders.

At the end of 1261 the prestige table is
Annam 16.6
Sukothai 12.0
Orissa 9.8
Dali 8.0
Angkor 7.5
Mongolia 7.0
Sung China 7.0
Japan 6.9
Uighurs 4.9
Korea 4.9
Yuan China 3.9
Pagan 2.8
Srivijaya 0.0

07-28-2009, 09:07 AM
A brief Synopsis of Session 4

1262 Spring Annam takes the offensive against Dali. Battle of Chongqing sees a narrow victory to Annam when the Dali general is killed in combat. However the Annamese artillery, instrumental in so many Annamese victories is overrun. Allied contingents from Angkor (for Annam) and Pagan (for Dali) fail to arrive.

1262 Spring Dali makes an attempt to re-take Chongqing. Second battle of Chongqing sees a disastrous collapse of the Dali army in a long battle. The remnants fall back.

1262 Spring Japan attacks Sung China at Guangzhou. The Sung army falls back and allows a siege. The city holds out.

1262 Spring Resurgent Yuan move to recapture their territory from the Mongols. Battle of Shangdu sees the Yuan narrowly triumph in a bloody battle and thus driving the Mongols back to the steppes.

1262 Spring Yuan march to the relief of Guangzhou. Battle of Guangzhou sees the Japanese prevail despite determined Chinese resistance. Losses from the siege and the battle make the victory somewhat Phyrric for the Japanese.

1262 Spring Sukothai invades Srivijaya and besieges Kedah. The city falls.

Prestige Table at the end of Spring 1262
Annam 22.7
Sukothai 12.0
Orissa 9.8
Japan 8.7
Dali 8.0
Angkor 7.5
Mongolia 7.0
Sung 7.0
Yuan 4.9
Uighurs 4.9
Korea 4.9
Pagan 2.8
Srivijaya 0.0


08-23-2009, 09:16 AM
A Breif Synopsis of the 5th Session of our ongoing DBA campaign.

1262 Summer - Annam attacks Dali, besieging the capital. It surrenders making Dali a vassal of Annam.

1262 Summer - Srivijaya tries to cut its way out of the ring of steel that was surrounding it, attacking Sukothai held Kedah. Battle of Kedah sees the Srivijayan army cut to pieces.

1262 Summer - Uighurs attack the resurgent Yuan and besiege Kucha. This former Uighur possession quickly returns to the Uighur fold.

1262 Summer - Japanese attack the Sung and besiege Fuzhou. The city surrenders after a token resistance.

1262 Autumn - Undeterred the Srivijayans launch an attack on Orissan held Samudra. Battle of Samudra sees the remnant Srivijayan army wiped out by the Orissan powerhouse.

1262 Autumn - Orissa walks into Srivijayan capital and accepts the surrender of the city making Srivijaya a vassal.

1262 Autumn - Uighur continues its offensive into Yuan territory. Battle of Ningxia sees the Yuan triumph despite being outnumbered.

1262 Autumn - Japan strikes at the Sung capital Hangzhou. The city holds out and the invaders eventually retire.

1262 Autumn - Yuan pursue the retreating Uighur to Kucha where they turn and fight. Battle of Kucha is a much more even affair but the Yuan triumph again despite suffering substantial losses.

At the end of 1262 the prestige table is
Annam - 29.7
Sukothai - 21.5
Orissa - 17.8
Japan - 12.7
Yuan - 10.5
Dali - 8.0
Angkor - 7.5
Mongolia - 7.0
Sung - 7.0
Uighurs - 4.9
Korea - 4.9
Pagan 2.8
Srivijaya - 0.0

09-27-2009, 07:09 AM
A Breif Synopsis of the 6th (Penultimate) Session of our ongoing DBA campaign.

1263 Spring - Dali invades the Yuan and attacks its capital. Battle of Dadu sees the Yuan army crushed in a brutal loss. Yuan becomes a vassal of Dali.

1263 Spring - Uighur take advantage of Yuan trouble and besiege Kucha. The city holds out.

1263 Spring - Mongols decide to come to the releif of Kucha. Battle of Kucha sees the Mongols defeated by the Uighur who are then able to return to their seige lines.

1263 Spring - Japan marches on the Sung Capital (Hangzhou). The Sung stay behind the city walls and hold back the Samurai tide.

1263 Spring - Yuan attack the Sung while their army is trapped within Hangzhou. The city of Xianyang surrenders to the Yuan after a breif siege.

1263 Spring - the Sung sally forth from Hangzhou. Battle of Hangzhou sees the Japanese victorious despite dogged Chinese resistance. Sung become a vassal of Japan.

1263 - Annam invades Pagan with support from Sukothai. The Paganese fight with support from thier Orissan overlord. Battle of Pegu sees the Paganese War Elephants advance upon the Annamese centre, resisting the artillery and overrunning it. The Annamese fight back, and the battle hangs in the balance until the allied contingents arrive. A narrow defeat for the Annamese sees them retreat to thier own territory leaving the Paganese also badly weakened.

At the end of Spring 1263 the prestige table is
Annam - 29.7
Sukothai - 22.6
Orissa - 18.7
Japan - 17.9
Dali - 14.8
Yuan - 10.5
Uighurs - 9.0
Angkor - 7.5
Mongolia - 7.0
Sung - 7.0
Korea - 4.9
Pagan 2.8
Srivijaya - 0.0

All going well we will finish up the next year at next month's session and crown the new Son of Heaven :)


10-04-2009, 07:30 AM
1263 Spring - Uighur take advantage of Yuan trouble and besiege Kucha. The city holds out.

1263 Spring - Mongols decide to come to the releif of Kucha. Battle of Kucha sees the Mongols defeated by the Uighur who are then able to return to their seige lines.

May I merely state that it was grossly unfair that the Uighur offset my superior mobility by their stated tactic of "rolling sixes". Didn't they know that their army is supposed to collapse when I try to roll up their line with outflanking attacks? bah!


p.s. though I shouldn't complain about bad luck as I did kill his only bow unit with a frontal attack with a single LH element....

10-15-2009, 02:15 AM
In just over a weeks time we will be running the final session of Yellow River Blues.

Who will be the new Son of Heaven.

Last month's battle of Pegu has opened up the field. Annam the clear leader for so long has suffered a crippling defeat - if the various vultures circling take advantage of this then there will be a sudden re-distribution of territory before the final scores are calculated.


10-25-2009, 07:25 AM
A breif synopsis of the 7th and final session of Yellow River Blues - which was primarily the confrontation between the Annamese and Orissan empires.

1263 Summer. Orissa attacks Annam. Battle of Cua Hoi sees the Orissan empire (Orissa supported by their Paganese vassals) take on the Annamese coalition (Annam with support from their Ankorean vassal and their Sukothai ally). Orissan forces are narrowly defeated and forced back, but Annam and Sukothai suffer casualties. Angkor fails to arrive at the battle.

1263 Summer. Dali invades Korea. Battle of Anson sees the Korean army devastated once more when they are ambushed by the Dali Pikemen. The Dali commander however dies at the moment of victory.

1263 Summer. Uighur seige of Kucha concludes with the surrender of the city to the Uighur.

1263 Summer. Mongols attack Uighur. Battle of Kucha sees the Mongols crushed in battle.

1263 Autumn. Orissan empire attacks Annam once more. Battle of Cua Hoi sees the Orissans backed up by Pagan and Srivijayan vassals take on the Annamese Coalition (Annam, Angkor and Sukothai) in a massive battle. The battle was primarily decided by the confused combat between the allied contingents whilst the two main protagonists pushed back and forth. Orissan forces are once again defeated.

At the end of the campaign with all prestige awarded the final standings are
Annam - 56.6
Japan - 42.9
Sukothai - 41.1
Orissa - 33.7
Dali - 33.3
Yuan - 22.5
Uighur - 22.1
Angkor - 16.0
Korea - 10.6
Mongolia - 16.0
Sung - 10.0
Pagan - 9.5
Srivijaya - 3.0

A big thankyou to all the players - and to everyone that has checked out this thread over the past few months