Hoplite Greeks

[TWR]

Hi,

Would anyone like to suggest compositions for a BBDBA army comprising Later Hoplite Greeks (II/5). I am in the process of rebasing and updating some of the detail on a small DBM army.

How many allies vs non allied hoplite armies. Thessilians etc all spring to mind.

[Ecdicius]

Your choices range between 'realistic' where deployments are fairly well documented; and 'min-max' where you try to get the best killing machine onto the tabletop.

Nelson's Armies of the Greek & Persian Wars (WRG) and heavier publications like Peter Connolly's Greece and Rome at War provide army lists that you can attempt to scale for DBA for the 'realistic' end; at the other end just fiddle with the many options that II/5 permits until you get an army that kills and kills and kills.

Don't overlook the 2 Daves' BB assessment when min-maxing - invaluable for discussion of complexity v effectiveness
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/BBDBA/ArmyAssessment.html

[Bill Sumruld]

Either double Thessalians with a Phokian Ally, if you know how to use badgoing troops and artillery very well, or triple Thessalians, or double Thessalians with a Theban Ally. Those would be my suggestions. Triple Thessalian gives you 3Cv, 9Cv or Lh, 18Sp, 6Ps or Ax. Remember that, the way the list works, if you take any Lh you have to take at least 3 and if you want any more than 3 you have to take at least 6. Theban Ally just gives you 1 or 2 more spear to play with and perhaps an extra Ax. Phokian gives you this potential: Thessalian 2Cv, 6Cv or Lh, 12Sp, 4Ps, or Ax + Phokian Ally 2Sp, 4Ax, 3Ps, Cv, 2Art or Ps. Remember each ally must provide its own separate camp but the main C in C's army ID only has one normal size camp. So a triple Thessalian army would have only 1 camp to worry about while the other options have 2. The Phokians do give you something worthwhile against enemy mounted with the Art but your complexity and skill level need to be commensurate to use it effectively and the extra Ax will help you take advantage of badgoing if you are good at that.

[Frizzenspark]

I feel somewhat justified considering Phokians as an ally.

I have an Athenian Army, what would you consider to be good allies for it?

[Il Duce]

A good historical battle would be Plataea.

Athenians, other Greeks, and Spartans (all allies)

vs

Two Persian armies with Theban ally.

[Il Duce]

A good historical battle would be Plataea.

Athenians, other Greeks, and Spartans (all allies)

vs

Two Persian armies with Theban ally.

[Bill Sumruld]

I feel somewhat justified considering Phokians as an ally.

I have an Athenian Army, what would you consider to be good allies for it?

Last question first, almost any other Greek state. Alliances were very fluid in ancient Hellas at times. If you are being hyper-historical you would almost need to pinpoint a year to know who might be on the same side. Greeks tended to band into alliances to pull down whatever Greek city state seemed to be presently in the superior position. Spartans, for example, were allies of Thebans, Athenians, Phokians, etc. and at times their fiercest foes.

Athens served as a protector for Phokis from interference by the Thebans and/or Thessalians so an Athenian/Phokian alliance would certainly not be unreasonable. Double the Athenians and what you get is 2Cv, 2Lh, 16Sp, 2Ax, 2Ps. Add to that the Phokians with Art: Cv, 2Sp, 4Ax, 3Ps, 2Art. Remember that one Athenian General and the Phokian General must be Sp.

[Frizzenspark]

Bill I'll take that advice....double the Athenians......hmmm.

[btswanfury]

I don't have my book in front of me, but here goes. If an army doesn't exist, you can always use the "generic hoplite" army option.

Second Sacred War, Athens and Phocis vs. Sparta and the Delphi...ans?

For the first half of the Peloponnesian war, Athens and Argos vs. Sparta and Thebes.

For the Sicilian theater of operations, you could do any combination of Siciliot, Syracusan, Spartan, and Corinthian versus and equal number of Athenian armies.

For the Corinthian War, you could do any combination of Athenians, Corinthians, Thebans, and Argives vs. an equal number of Spartan and Pelopponese armies.

For the Corinthian Civil War, Athenians, Boetians, Argives, and Democratic Corinthians vs. Spartans and Oligarchic Corinthians.

Macedonian Invasion: Athenians and Thebans v. Macedonians, Thessalians, Aitolians, and Epriots.

Lamian War: Athenians, Aetolians, and minor forces vs. Macedonians

Hope that helps!

[Frizzenspark]

Hope that helps!

It does, thanks!!!!