Mounted in BGo

[imported_Paulisper]

When mounted face troops, who are in BGo, they receive a -2 in close combat, even if themselves not in it...yes?

But when the combat outcome is determined, do they count as in BGo for this also - I always thought yes, but there was some argument at the club last night over this one.....?? :confused:

[imported_adsarf]

I've always played it that the mounted must be in BGo themselves to receive the BGo combat outcome. Who has to be in GGo for Psiloi to die when facing mounted? the psiloi or the mounted?

Andrew

[Basil Bulgar-Slayer]

The rules are rather clear (or as clear as they get :rolleyes: ) on these questions.

1) Mounted get the BGoing effect whenever their opponent is in BGoing.

2) Mounted that are not physically in the BGoing are in clear terrain for combat resolution.

3) Psiloi must physically be in clear going to receive that combat effect.

If horse good, then trees bad. Taught to me by my cousin's favorite gelding (still upset about the whole gelding thing.....which I can understand).

[xeswop]

Let me add a little more on mounted in bad going, with regard to shooting

A question arose about Knights being shot in bad going. Are they destroyed if shot while they are in bad going?

"Knights. Destroyed by Elephants, Scythed Chariots or Light Horse, or by Bows whose front edge they have moved into contact with this bound, or if in bad going. If not, recoil."

Note that in the terrain section, there is a rule that says:

"An element which is partly in bad going counts as entirely in bad going for movement and close combat." No reference to shooting.

So if an element is partly in bad going when shot at, is it destroyed if the outcome says destroyed in bad going?

Phil said:
If the target edge is entirely outside, it counts as outside.

This builds on the rule:
"A Hill's crest or the edge of a Wood or Oasis blocks shooting from or at an element base edge entirely beyond it.

So if the target edge is entirely inside the woods (beyond the edge as the rule says) then it cannot be shot at. If the edge is entirely beyond (inside) any other bad going then it can be shot at and then the bad going outcome applies.

If the edge is partially outside of any bad going, then the bad going outcome applies.

If the target edge is entirly outside the bad going but the rest of the element is in bad going, then the bad going result does not apply.

If an element is in bad going and is shot at, note that it does not take a -2 tactical factor because that only applies to close combat:

"2 If any but Auxilia, Bows, Warband or Psiloi and in close combat in, or mounted in close combat with enemy in, bad going on or off-road, or if mounted attacking a BUA unless elephants."

[Paul A. Hannah]

And, of course, don't forget that Camels have their own definition of what Bad Going is. Excerpting from Bob Beattie's Commentary:

"Camels count Oasis (sic) and Dunes as good going. The Camels do not take a -2 for fighting enemy in these two types of Bad Going."

BTW, I always learn something new when I browse Bob's Commentaries, so I'll plug the URL again here. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/dba/bobcmts04.html

For example, today, I learned that an overlapping element does not need to be in parallel, edge-contact with the element it is helping. (See diagram on Page-8 of his section on Close Combat.)

[imported_Paulisper]

Originally posted by Paul A. Hannah:
BTW, I always learn something new when I browse Bob's Commentaries, so I'll plug the URL again here. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/dba/bobcmts04.html Thanks for all the responses - we actually had a copy of Bob's commentaries last night, but couldn't track down anything explicitly on whether the mounted counted as in BGo for the combat outcome when taking on troops in BGo - does anyone know where it is in the commentaries?

[xeswop]

I am putting in the final corrections and fixes for 2.2 and other things that have come up recently. End of Jan I should (must) have the final edition for the year. I would be very grateful for any and all suggestions for improvment and the pointing out of errors. Thanks

The corner to corner overlap is something I was asked about and just added last night (Jan 27).

The point about Mounted taking a -2 for fighting in bad going is in Tactical Factors
10. Any mounted type that is outside bad going but fighting any element in bad going also gets the -2. Camels do not take the -2 if themselves in combat in Dunes and Oasis or if fighting others in that type. The others would get the -2 when fighting the camels. Dunes and Oasis are just not bad going for the camels but are for all other types. Note that this applies to both 3Cm and 2Cm in the army lists.

11. What counts as being in bad going? An element which is partly in bad going counts as entirely in bad going for movement and close combat.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/dba/dbapics/bdgocombt0.gif


Hope this helps

[Roland Fricke]

Thank God - I think we all agreed. smile.gif

[imported_Paulisper]

Originally posted by Bob.:
The point about Mounted taking a -2 for fighting in bad going is in Tactical Factors
10. Any mounted type that is outside bad going but fighting any element in bad going also gets the -2. Camels do not take the -2 if themselves in combat in Dunes and Oasis or if fighting others in that type. The others would get the -2 when fighting the camels. Dunes and Oasis are just not bad going for the camels but are for all other types. Note that this applies to both 3Cm and 2Cm in the army lists.

11. What counts as being in bad going? An element which is partly in bad going counts as entirely in bad going for movement and close combat.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/dba/dbapics/bdgocombt0.gif


Hope this helps Thanks for that Bob, but this was the section I looked at the other night and it doesn't explicitly state that mounted fighting troops in BGo, whilst receiving -2, don't suffer the BGo combat result, unless themselves actually in BGo. I think it'd be useful if the diagram stated that, whilst B and D suffer the -2 in combat, they don't receive the BGo combat result penalty, whereas A and C do.....

[xeswop]

It would be easier for me to change item 11 to say:
11. What counts as being in bad going? An element which is partly in bad going counts as entirely in bad going for movement and close combat. If an element is not at all in bad going, it does not take bad going outcomes, even if fighting an enemy in bad going.

I cannot find the original picture to make the change :(

[imported_Paulisper]

Originally posted by Bob.:
It would be easier for me to change item 11 to say:
11. What counts as being in bad going? An element which is partly in bad going counts as entirely in bad going for movement and close combat. If an element is not at all in bad going, it does not take bad going outcomes, even if fighting an enemy in bad going.I think that sounds good and clears up any misunderstanding! Thanks for your help, Bob

[cpagano]

Originally posted by Paulisper:
that sounds good and clears up any misunderstanding!Wow!

Originally posted by Roland Fricke:
Thank God - I think we all agreed.WOW!!!

This must mean that we're all wrong tongue.gif

[ January 29, 2004, 15:31: Message edited by: cpagano ]