multi[ple zoc question

[Romulus Rapax]

if an element is in the ZOC of two enemy units but not in contact with either...can he:
a: do nothing
b: attack the one closest to straight ahead, even though he is crossing the ZOC of the other.
c: ?

can element Z attack element Y, crossing the ZOC of element X to do so?

.....XXXX
..........
..Y....Z..
..Y....Z..
..Y....Z..

Thanks.

[David Kuijt]

The correct answer is (c): he may attack either element, or even "line up" with either element.

In other words, if you are in two ZOCs, you can choose one of them to ignore. Increasing the number of ZOCs doesn't increase the restrictions.

[Martian]

By the latest v2.1 ammendment and recent email from the Phil a unit 'within an element base width' of one or more enemy elements Unit Z may:
</font> Do nothing.</font> Move to contact the front of X.</font> Move to contact the front of Y.</font> Align itself with the front of X.</font> Align itself with the front of Y.</font> Align itself with the front of X and move up to just short of frontal contact.</font> Align itself with the front of Y and move up to just short of frontal contact.</font> Move straight to its own rear edge without changing its facing.</font>
Phil: Once lined up opposite enemy, movement straight forward or straight back does not cross their front.

This statement may permit two more options.

</font> Align itself with the front of X and move straight back the remainder of it's movement.</font> Align itself with the front of Y and move straight back the remainder of it's movement.</font>
These last two await confirmation from Phil as we speak!

Marty
(200 posts to go!)

[ May 30, 2003, 11:17: Message edited by: Martian ]

[Romulus Rapax]

Thanks fellas!, that is what I thought.
Can you clarify this one for me?

W,X and Y are one side, U and V the other.
Can U,V advance to attack X,Y? or can only V advance to attack Y, because U would be crossing the front of W?


.WWWW...
X......U
X......U
X......U
X......U
Y......V
Y......V
Y......V
Y......V

[Andrechin]

I think this is as in the first example you asked:

if X is facing U, U may contact either X or W.

If X is facing away, U may only contact W.

That is the way I understand the rule.


Attilio

[xeswop]

I see it this way too. U is within a base width distance of both W and X so can cross the front of either to attack the other. In the original version of DBA this was not allowed. Elements were caught in the "L" of no movement. They could not cross the front an element except to attack it. If caught between two elements, they could attack neither. Phil allowed the option to attack either in 1.1.

[Romulus Rapax]

Where is this option written in the rules?
Or is it just a word of mouth clarification?

[Redwilde]

Can a unit in rear support move across one zoc while the lead unit contacts the front of a different enemy?

[xeswop]

Originally posted by Romulus Rapax:
Where is this option written in the rules?
Or is it just a word of mouth clarification? Here is the current rule
CROSSING AN ELEMENT’S FRONT
No element can move across the front of an enemy element or enemy-controlled BUA or camp within 1 element base width distance and not at least partially separated from it by another element, except to contact or face 1 such element or contact that BUA or camp, or to retire directly to its own rear, or as an outcome move.


The crucial part is
CROSSING AN ELEMENT’S FRONT
No element can move across the front of an enemy element except to contact ... 1 such element .

The crucial word is SUCH. This means 1 such as you are crossing the front of.

So if within a base width distance of two or more enemy, it can contact any one SUCH element.

[xeswop]

Originally posted by Redwilde:
Can a unit in rear support move across one zoc while the lead unit contacts the front of a different enemy? There is no "zoc" By "Unit" you mean an element?

So, Can an element in rear support move across the front of an enemy within a base width distance while the lead element contacts the front of a different enemy?

I do not picture what is happening here. Do you mean, for example, two elements of warband spliting to attack two enemy.

It seems that the rear element is no longer supporting the front element if they are attacking two different elements. During some of such a move, the rear element will be shielded from the enemy by the front element, If the Front element is within a base width distance of one element, it cannot slide over to attack another and allow the rear one to attack forward.

This is probably much simplier than I am making out, can you give a diagram.

[Redwilde]

Originally posted by xes***:
I do not picture what is happening here. Do you mean, for example, two elements of warband spliting to attack two enemy.No. Both units advancing together in column as a group. Since the rear supporting unit does not directly contact the enemy, can it cross the ZOC of a different enemy unit in the process like the leading element can?

[Martian]

____SpSp
>
Ps
Ps __WbWb^
>___WbWb^

Spears facing down and Psiloi facing right.
Two Warband in column facing up.

Very interesting!

[xeswop]

Originally posted by Redwilde:
[QUOTE]
Both units advancing together in column as a group. Since the rear supporting unit does not directly contact the enemy, can it cross the ZOC of a different enemy unit in the process like the leading element can? This is an excellent point to consider. In HOTT this is made explicit. I believe this move is allowed in DBA some times because of the phrase
"not at least partially separated from it by another element." Thus the move can be made vs. one enemy. IF two ranks of Wb are within as base width distance of two or more enemy, say at right angles, then there could be a problem. If the back element turns to face one, then the other one is now separated. I guess each situation needs to be looked at closely.