Placement of scenery

[greywulf]

recently I have been having issue with my placement of scenery.

For the life of me I just do not seem to get it right. river is in the wrong place, to much scenery, to little, arrrgghhh!!!! :eek:

any ideas on what I should be doing etc.

I mainly play medieval armies, [scots, low countires, late swiss, scandinavians, Anglo-normans, germans]

Pikes, spears, some knights, WWG, Artillery, Psilois, small amount of bow/crossbow.

Cheers for any help. :D

[Sleech]

I don't quite understand what you mean. Can you be clearer? You have read the section of the rules called Creating the Battlefield?

[Dunctator]

Greywulf

For starters I wouldn't have anything to do with rivers: they're a nightmare!

With Pike and Knight armies you'll want a pretty clear arena to fight in. And so much depends on who your opponent is: does he have a lot of Bad Going troops? Does he have Light Horse who'd like to swing wide and threaten a flank?

I've played Scots Common (IV/16) a few times and I like to take the 2x3Wb option, so I might like to place some Bad Going; particularly if I was facing a Knight army like the Anglo-Normans (IV/3).

If you have Arable home topography you might consider placing a Waterway. I like this ploy as it narrows or shortens the battlefield depending on which side you get. This would give Light Horse armies less room for manoeuvre.

Hope this helps.

Dunctator

[Xavi]

He means that he does not seem to do it properly from a tactical point of view: place the terrain to get an advantage out of it.

I am not a DBA expert, but this is what I have been doing

1) place symetrical terrain.
No matter where you deploy, you should have a similar terrain feature in every angle. T>his way you can design your tactic regardless of where you and the enemy start the battle. You can see what I mean here http://dbagamer.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/returning-upon-my-shield/
courtesy of a fellow fanatici :)

2) How many BGo troops do you tend to use? The more of those you have, the more you will take advantage of BGo.

3) If you have lots of heavy infantry but low numbers of cavalry, 2 roads forming a cross might be a good idea to increase your speed.

4) If you fight well in open ground, place minimal terrain features. If you are good in BGo, place quite substantial ones. Check the same about your oponent. If you are BETTER than him in BGo, it is the moment to use all those huge forests you have. If he is better, try to play in a football pitch. Comparison of armies is important to decide where to fight.

For example, muy army of choice right now has: 2 Cv, 1 LH, 4 Sp, 2 Wb, 2 Ax & 1 Ps. I am better in the good (7 units vs 5) but I have fought battles where my GGo troops acted as cheerleeders: they hang at mid table and tries NOT to engage anything swince my opponent was better (Kn army, for example). Meanwhile myn 5 BGo troops where chasing out his Ax, Bw and Ps in the rough terrain. In other words, play to your advantages.

Your armies are not very good in the rough for what you say, so I would say that you should try to play in an open table. Place terrain to protect your flanks, covered by your few BGo troops. Huge terrain features are not to your advantage.

Hope that made some sense to you :)

Cheers,

Xavi

[Stelzone]

Terrain palcement is very important. Xavi covered a lot of the main points.

1. Study your army, know where they will need to win against most types. Will you need large Bg areas to offset a lack of punch. Or a pool table that allows you to hit hard and quick with El or Kn.

2. Know your enemy. Study what will be the best terrain to hamper your enemy. Do this by type not specific army, Kn heavy to Ps heavy if for open tournament bound. Period types if local or set period tournament.

3. Use terrain in ways that can frustrate enemy. Best Example i have is when I basically tricked a Kn army into setting up on the rough side of the board, the one he thought I wanted. Before he cleared th Rg my Ps and Ax were in there with him, Kn v. Ax and ps in Rg was not pretty. So use it like you would your army, to trick or place your opponent in a position to be defeated.

4. Be ready to play on his field, even Agression 0 loses the roll to Ag 4. :D

[Stelzone]

Terrain palcement is very important. Xavi covered a lot of the main points.

1. Study your army, know where they will need to win against most types. Will you need large Bg areas to offset a lack of punch. Or a pool table that allows you to hit hard and quick with El or Kn.

2. Know your enemy. Study what will be the best terrain to hamper your enemy. Do this by type not specific army, Kn heavy to Ps heavy if for open tournament bound. Period types if local or set period tournament.

3. Use terrain in ways that can frustrate enemy. Best Example i have is when I basically tricked a Kn army into setting up on the rough side of the board, the one he thought I wanted. Before he cleared th Rg my Ps and Ax were in there with him, Kn v. Ax and ps in Rg was not pretty. So use it like you would your army, to trick or place your opponent in a position to be defeated.

4. Be ready to play on his field, even Agression 0 loses the roll to Ag 4. :D

[greywulf]

thx Dunctator, Xavi, & Stelzone,

thats the advice I am looking for.

my main opponent is my bro-inlaw who fields:

Medieval french, Medieval Germans, Welsh, Burgundian ordonnance, French ordonnance, War of the roses english, Feudal English, 100 year's English, Medieval Scandinavian Swedish and "Others".

Mostly Knights, Bow, and blades are his troops types. he hs a few Psiloi, 2 units of 3wb, No Aux.

My main troop type is Pike, followed with knights, Warband and Psilois.

I have used a water way once and it was interesting to use. rivers haven't been to bad for use as we tend to roll alot of 1's and 2's so it is mostly paltry river :D

I try to use a lot of woods when he fields his welsh army [8x 3Bw] etc.

Any other things I am missing when using the correct terrian.

[David Kuijt]

My main troop type is Pike, followed with knights, Warband and Psilois.

I try to use a lot of woods when he fields his welsh army [8x 3Bw] etc.


Woods won't help you much against a bow army; not unless you've got as many warband as he has bow. If you have a pike/knight army with three warband or less, putting out terrain (ANY TERRAIN) is playing into his hand. Even woods.

If you've got some warband, Woods are great against enemy Kn/Bd with a few bow. But if you have Kn/Pk, you never ever want terrain. Maybe a smidge around the edges, with some important locations, if you have a few warband, but even there you might do better with none at all (or as little as you can legally do) against enemy that has lots of bow.

[Stelzone]

Wb v. Bw heavy ends up being a matter of placement in set up. You need to place the Wb so they match up v. the Bw at a place they can use the double move to make contact. And at last resort go fo the Pk, stay away from the Kn. Wb and Pk are both vulnerable to Bw, if they get to mass fire(3 on1). But the double move allaws the Wb to stand off and then hit without being fired on.

Attacking Pk should be choice if it is ranked in singles. Double rank avoid and go for flanks.

Sounds like speed is best friend for you so small terrain pieces to break up army. Defendable hills that are placed so you can get to them. Wds are not good choice if you can't equal the Bw with Wb and Ps. It eats your pips to no effect.

Gentle Hills are a great way to get better odds, place them so they are obtainable( but far enough out so that enemy doesn't just redo line as you sit to far back to hit him and then be patient. If he starts rearranginmg line charge the disordered line.

All Bg in the case you talk about sounds like it will hurt more than help. Hogs pips you need to move.

Remember that as a defender you get to switch 2 pair of units. This can be a great thing if matchups are the key.

Mike S.

[Sumerian Jon]

Greywulf

For starters I wouldn't have anything to do with rivers: they're a nightmare!


Rivers are a nightmare and I use them to make a battlefied smaller, as in BBDBA.

Great for armiers with open flanks.

[Pthomas]

Just as another thought, if you are a Pk,Kn army try a small piece of woods in the exact center of the board (two or less elements in diameter). This may encourage your opponent to try to seize it with his bad going troops, but you have enough to contest it. You can then use it to anchor one flank of your Pk. the Kn's can anchor the other Pk flank. Make the terrain legal by putting small bits in the corners.

If he doesn't contest it, you can just sweep around it and continue to use it as an anchor, even if you have to extend your Pk line with your BGing troops, they will be anchored on the Bging.

[greywulf]

Recently we have tried to not field rivers and it is easier. [dam hard when we roll a 6 for the river with no bridge or forge. :eek: ]

Certainly been trying out the "Less is best" options for my arimes it worked out better. :D

One thing what about BUA, are they worth placing or not? :confused:
We have never tried one and want to see what all the fuss is about them. any suggestions we should know before we use them?

cheers
AJ

[Don Ray]

BUA's are a lot of fun!
1)They should look great-see the Fanaticus 'Resource'/Eyecandy/BUA.
2)They add tactical spice!
a)Should you ignore the BUA "bait" or is it vulnerable,giving you a quick
3 elements equivelent toward victory IF you win?
b)If you are the defender, you are entitled to swich up to 4 elements around. You can exchange your Bw in the BUA by replacing it with a Bd- watch your opponent get frustrated as he/she now faces your defense of 8 rather than 5! ;) This is called Devitt's Deviousness ;)

Some say BUAs slow down a game-they must not have played a game with 2 Sp armies slowly, slowly, slowly pushing each other around!

More anon,
Don

[Stephen Webb]

Never ever get sucked into attacking the BUA with your blade general supported by a psiloi.

Even though you can't be destroyed and eventually you can take it, you then lose control of your army, since your general is in the BUA.

I did this once and had to watch while my opponent out manoevered my army before I could get the general out again.

But they can be fun at times.

[Yozhik]

I've been frustrated about the terrain I've laid out before. But here's my thinking on it. Lay out the terrain that will be of most advantage to your army and least advantage to your opponent. You list of a lot of troops that do better in good going, so only put out the required bad going-and the smaller size the better.

Remember, you are the defender. This means that you have drawn the enemy into a place where you want to fight. Give him as little advantage as possible. Less is more.

If you're having trouble with a certain type of terrain, use something that is better for your army. Also keep in mind his battle line versus yours. Does he need to keep together to win? Do you? Can you outflank him and where?

And don't forget to s*** pairs. You can place good going troops in bad going and then switch them for bad going troops. This can really mess up his plans, but you need to think ahead.

Well, those are some of my thoughts.