Pre-set deployment

[John Meunier]

I'm hoping to host a BBDBA game soon that will be based on the Battle of the Trebia (Republican Roman vs. Later Carthaginian). I'm hoping for two or three players on a side.

In order to speed play, I was going to go ahead and have the armies deployed before starting the game.

Is this a good idea? Or do you think fairly inexperienced playes enjoy the complications of deploying? I worry that the Carthos might be a bit too complicated. What do people think?

[Pozanias]

IMHO, if you are going to play BBDBA based on the battle of Trebia then go ahead and have pre-set terrain and deployment (and possibly also special rules or victory conditions). This will help to add to the charm and fun of the game.

Specifically to your point, I don't think new players enjoy the complications of deployment. I think 'understanding the complexities of deployment' comes AFTER 'mastering the basics of the game' on the learning curve.

Anyway, it sounds like a fun event. Let us know how it goes.

[Chris Brantley]

For historical scenarios (whether regular or Giant/BBDBA), I always do the initial set-up primarily to keep the battle as close to the historical deployment as possible (assuming you have something to reference for the historical deployment). No reason why you can't experiment though.

The advantage to pre-setting is you can get right into play, saving 10-15 minutes of game time, avoiding the fussiness of deployment for inexperienced players, and also sticking to history.

The advantage of allowing players to deploy is it gives them the opportunity to rewrite history through their generalship.

Another twist, if you decide to go with player deployment, is to do it blind. Let players come up with their battle plan before they see the enemy's formations. In my opinion, this is more historical in most set-piece battles, where the deployments were planned and orders were issued to the commanding officers the night before the battle. Maybe give the players some intelligence about what they are facing...and a quick look at the terrain, then put down a screen across the mid-point of the board, with no peeking allowed.

[JamesLDIII]

Another twist, if you decide to go with player deployment, is to do it blind. Let players come up with their battle plan before they see the enemy's formations. In my opinion, this is more historical in most set-piece battles, where the deployments were planned and orders were issued to the commanding officers the night before the battle. Maybe give the players some intelligence about what they are facing...and a quick look at the terrain, then put down a screen across the mid-point of the board, with no peeking allowed.

I personally like this option best and would do it anyway, but one of the challenges is the possibility of a blatant mismatch that will likely end in one side losing the battle. With BBDBA, it takes a bit longer to finish and replay a battle (compared to DBA at least) even when you are pretty sure its going to turn out badly because of poor deployment decisions. Now I personally say tuff, good lesson to the player on how not to deploy, but you might decide whether the personalities of the players are more likely to lead to disappointment over the whole gaming experience or excitement at a challenge to overcome a poor deployment plan on the way to victory.

[David Kuijt]

What Mark said -- for inexperienced players, deployment isn't the fun part. They don't know enough to know if they're making mistakes or not, and that can be frustrating and slow things down.

If you're doing a historical battle, fixed deployment is better!

[John Meunier]

Anyway, it sounds like a fun event. Let us know how it goes.

If I can scrape up the four players I need, I'll let you know how it goes. I'll even take pictures -- although my terrain is on the ugly, fabric store side of things. One area (among many) on which I need to do more work.

[Martian]

For a historical battle go with the historical setup. Preset deployment is best for new players and in a convention setting.

If you have the time you could do it twice in a six hour convention time block. Second time, give them a chance to do it their way.

Perhaps an option for a non-historical 'what if' battle would be to give each side three optional pre-set deployments and let each side choose one.

[Darren Buxbaum]

I second what Martin mentioned, providing that you have enough time to run it twice.
Here is another twist. A friend of mine is running some obscure Napoleonic battles recently, he sets up the terrain and deployment, but doesn't tell them what battle they are fighting until the game is over. I found this interesting, since some players like to suppose what their historical counterpart would do instead of reacting to their present situation in a game. Then one could loosely compare the game to the historical outcome.

Cheers,
Darren

[Timurilank]

I'm hoping to host a BBDBA game soon that will be based on the Battle of the Trebia (Republican Roman vs. Later Carthaginian). I'm hoping for two or three players on a side.

John,

How are you handling Mago's ambush? Die role for location of board entrance or board entrance known to Carthaginians but timing dependent on battlefield circumstances? Do post photos.

cheers,

[Paul L. Harrison]

I have done Trebia as a DBM scenario several times at it quite a hit among the players. I used a special role to simulate the Roman fatigue brought on by Sempronius Longus' eagerness to fight. We rolled two dice; added 4 turns, and that was the turn the Roman army started to feel the effects of fatigue. I also gave Hannibal a PIP advantage. In DBM we rolled 4 regular dice and he could pick the three he wanted. It is a fun game.

[John Meunier]

Those good ideas, Paul. Thanks for passing them along.

Timurilank, my initial thought was to give Hannibal and entrance zone for Mago and have him eligible to enter on any bound in which Hannibal rolls a 6 for pips.

One of the aesthetic issues I'm fighting with Polybian Romans in BBDBA is that very long, very thin line of blades. Even with Sp clusters backing it up, I just am not a huge fan of the one-deep line of 18 elements.

And if I pull any of the blades out of line to make a second blade line - which might be useful against the Cartho Wb, I shorten the line so much that my Roman HI infantry does not overlap the Carthaginian HI line - which the sources say it did.

I could solve this by shifting around the composition of the Carthaginian army - trading some of its infantry for cavalry elements.

I will have to keep fiddling.

[Timurilank]

One of the aesthetic issues I'm fighting with Polybian Romans in BBDBA is that very long, very thin line of blades. Even with Sp clusters backing it up, I just am not a huge fan of the one-deep line of 18 elements.

I will have to keep fiddling.

I have used the two rank system with an elements spacing between the legions (the 12 elements representing two legions). If needed a blade or spear from the second rank could easily fill the space, but it also would offer an opening for retiring Ps or charging Cv.

cheers,

[John Meunier]

Well, my planned game day to run my Trebia game fell apart for lack of player committment.

I just have not done a good job getting locals to play DBA - or be interested in it. Gotta find time to recruit more players. Or move to WADBAG country.

I'll try again in September and post results if I can get it to work.

[Jeff Caruso]

Well, my planned game day to run my Trebia game fell apart for lack of player committment.

I just have not done a good job getting locals to play DBA - or be interested in it. Gotta find time to recruit more players. Or move to WADBAG country.

I'll try again in September and post results if I can get it to work.

Seems to be a common problem in some regions.

I was fortunate Friday to get two additional players to make four total for BBDBA, Eastern Patrician Civil War. The bad guys (the other side) won in a really fun game.The two guys who joined, play DBA but not regularly.We kept things simple and that added to everyone's enjoyment. Twelve element commands, simple terrain choices. Gave me some ideas for the next time.

I'll lay out terrain and I already have the armies ready to go. Going to bend the historical setup a bit by having the Picts ally with the Gepids and Thuringians vs Western Patrician and two Eastern Patrician allies.

When introducing relatively new players to DBA its better to try for more fun and less chrome (in way of setup , etc).

I'll try to take battle notes and write it up proper.

Jeff