Normans/Anglo-Normans

[imported_Lee Shackelford]

Hi all,

I'm putting together an army for DBA and DBM.

I was looking at DBM Book 3 on the Normans, and the list states that Norman knights can always dismount as Spear........ why can't they in DBA?

Not only can they not dismount DURING the game, they aren't even given the option of STARTING as dismounted ..... strange.

So I thought, well, I can use the figures as Anglo-Norman.

In DBA they have an option 1 X WWG or 3Cv or 3Sp ..... why are those the only options .... making one of those three mandatory in DBA when those three options per the DBM lists are all optional .... not mandatory at all?

I know this is done with most armies, but why doesn't DBA also give you the option of using one more of the main troop types along with the other options?

thanks in advance

Lee Shackelford

[Kees Bosch]

Hi Lee,

Just make an army on which you can agree that it would be reasonable historic, hope u can find an adversary who doesn't have (that big) a problem with it and use the true DBA-list for other guys (and women) and tournaments.

regards,
Kees Bosch

[smaul1]

Hi Lee

I show on 2.2 rules that period 4 normans can dismount as blades or spears.

Period III Normans cannot.

I field both armies.

[Dunctator]

posted by Lee Shackelford I was looking at DBM Book 3 on the Normans, and the list states that Norman knights can always dismount as Spear........ why can't they in DBA? Hi Lee

I field both Norman (III/51) and Anglo-Norman (IV/3) armies and your question made me go to the reference books.

It's an interesting one. Duncan Head, Armies of the Dark Ages 600-1066 (p.51, para. 6), states that Norman infantry "took little or no part in pitched battles though they were successfully employed in sieges ( though for assaults dismounted knights were used )."

As you say, DBA allows Anglo-Normans to dismount as either Blades or Spears. DBM Army Lists Book 4 clarifies this by saying that "a large proportion of the cavalry were often dismounted to stiffen the foot".

I don't play DBM so I'm not sure why DBM allows Normans to dismount, as it seems to be a tactic only used during sieges. DBA would appear to be more historically accurate.

Hope this helps.

Dunctator

[aubry d'anjou]

Dunc: Ian Heath wrote my version (1980) of AotDA, but the point is well taken.

Lee: Basically, the Normans are a cavalry army. They would dismount only in extremis, and they didn't encounter LH and life-threatening dehydration much until the Crusades. They learned to ride and fight from the same characters we call the Feudal French. It took the F. F. more than 200 years beyond 1072 to figure out that sometimes it's better to walk to the fight. The Anglo-Normans inherited remnants of an army with an infantry tradition after Hastings (no easy victory) saw the advantages, and went with them.

In DBA the Normans/ W. Franks hit as Knights but without the considerable control issues re: all impetuous troops in DBM. As you tackle the DBM rules, the Irr Kn (F) will be revealed as a tricky little critter to use consistently, anyway, that's how I find them. And, a tactical dismount in DBM is no easy thing, and it has several significant caveats/limitations tacked on to it.

If you want to dismount your Normans just use East Franks or (a) list Medieval Germans, they are non-kissing cousins, and so, look just about the same. The only difference as I portray them is in using OG Ottonian Infantry with the Franconians, and OG Swabians for dismounted knights.
DBA/DBM is no where close to highly consistent/all-encompasing etc. but, it is a lot of fun. If you start to get comfortable with the DBx game mechanics and army lists, don't worry they will be changed!!

[Timurilank]

I'm putting together an army for DBA and DBM.

I was looking at DBM Book 3 on the Normans, and the list states that Norman knights can always dismount as Spear........ why can't they in DBA? Lee,

Had you given any thought to the East Frankish Army III/52? You may want to look at the list of allies for this option with Swabian knights; Early Slavs, Lombards, West Franks, Early Polish, Communal Italians and Papal Italians.

cheers,

[imported_Lee Shackelford]

Thanks for the help smile.gif

hope all of you that celebrated Thanksgiving had a good one

Lee