Mongols

[Adrian Williams]

I am an experienced gamer, playing primarily Warrior in 25mm though I have played DBA on and off since it came out. I am entering a tournament soon and I am thinking of brining a Mongol Army. How are Mongol armies, or LH heavy armies generally considered to fare in open competition?

[David Kuijt]

They are very entertaining, but if you want to win in an open competition, they stink.

[Pthomas]

You said you were entering a tournament, but there are a number of variables about tournaments that could make the Mongols more competitive.

Larger boards in particular can help them. If it is an open tournament, as DK said you will find the sledding hard, but enjoyable.

So are there any tournament variables that might favor the poor Mongols?

[Macbeth]

Hi Adrian,

assuming that the tournament you plan to enter is Landwaster, then I can straight up let you know that we will be using the (standard) 2'x2' boards.

Other important variables.
We are using the standard form of terrain setting (ie - dice for attacker/defender, Defender then lays terrain, attacker dices for sides).

This means that the Mongols with an Agression of 3 will be pushing it uphill somewhat as they will primarily be facing terrain not of their choosing.
;)

There is at least one other brave soul planning to use the Mongol Conquest, Aristonicus - a veteran Fanatici of few words or postings.

For a brain free victory in DBA you should run with a medieval dismounting knights army, but never forget that your brother did very well with Marian Romans at Landwaster last year.

Cheers

[David Kuijt]

Originally posted by Macbeth:

This means that the Mongols with an Agression of 3 will be pushing it uphill somewhat as they will primarily be facing terrain not of their choosing.
;)
Aggression 4. Even worse.

[Andrew Ford]

Macbeth

You could put them against each other in the first (historical seeding) round. Then at least the terrain should be favourable to both and they should get some points without needing to Brave Sir Robin into the rough. Or maybe it'll be an 11GC-12GC taking the Butcher's Award and a huge leap each on the rest of us...

Andrew Ford

[ November 11, 2005, 08:30: Message edited by: Andrew Ford ]

[Aristonicus]

Speaking from experience, you could best describe them as an army that will challenge your generalship. You will come to appreciate how good Temujin and Subotai actually were, to win with such lightly equipped forces.

Army Pros: - Very fast & manouverable - with enough PIPs to use the second/subsequent move rule you can catch enemy forces as they deploy forcing overlaps etc
- Spear, Pikes, Blades, Aux, Warband, Hordes & war wagons will find it very difficult to kill your light horse. Also they are the most vulnerable to your LH. (DIB for Sp & PK, CF = to LH for WB, Aux & Hd)

Army Cons - 2/3 of your units have a CF of +2 (v.bad)
- High aggression not only means that you'll need to do a refresher course on the terrain set up rules occassionally, but that the other army will have the 'home ground advantage'.

Some tips
- avoid bad going, attacking across rivers and Armies with names beginning with "Post Mongol-"
- DO sieze hills whenever you can. Being up-hill of enemy cavalry will even out the odds quite well.
- Try keeping your general within Command radius of all your army so you don't lose PIPs for moving 1200+ pace distant groups
- Avoid bow, Cavalry and Camelry
- Do try to roll sixes

Good luck! :D

[orca]

I just recently played a BBDBA with a wall o spear army vs (huns, turks or some such, they all look the same! A few CV, the rest LH). I had 3 equal commands (this was 3 ally army). But the compsition didn't matter as much as what happened. I had never faced a LH army before, but I have had isolated experience with the LH vs SP quick kill. The BBDBA battle - well, suffice to say I wouldn't mind trying again, it was a learning experience. My opponent just began to unravel one flank, while turn after turn he made mass attacks of LH vs SP, and the odds gods will ensure that the SP QK will approach the break point. If the tourney is regular DBA you will face PIP-drain problems, and the standard board size is a handicap as well. But, if you want to play and see what happens - take the mongols - very educational. By the way, if you play another LH army, expect a quick and bloody game. I played a regular DBA Mongol army vs Alans, and won 4-1 in 3 turns. Your nightmare is going to be facing a CAV + BOW army. And, you want lots o pips - if you can arrange that...

[Timurilank]

David wrote: Some tips
- avoid bad going, attacking across rivers and Armies with names beginning with "Post Mongol-"
- DO sieze hills whenever you can. Being up-hill of enemy cavalry will even out the odds quite well.
- Try keeping your general within Command radius of all your army so you don't lose PIPs for moving 1200+ pace distant groups
- Avoid bow, Cavalry and Camelry
- Do try to roll sixes
Actually, if you must roll a ONE then do that in the beginning to determine the aggressor. Mongols as defenders, now that is a good day for the crows.

cheers,

[Adrian Williams]

Thanks - if I am able to get to the tournament I will probably bring Mongols or perhaps Timurids (much less a one trick army) - I love how they work in Warrior and have just painted a few more

[Macbeth]

We all hope you can make it Adrian,

Thus far we have hit 28 entries, with 26 lists submitted, 1 more with an army chosen but the list not finalised, and another still choosing an army.

There are two of the above who are only probables for various reasons. Still its a respectable level of entries for a one day DBA comp.

Timurids could be an interesting prospect. I've never seen them at a DBA tournament before. As a Cv heavy rather than LH heavy army they will prove an entirely different beast to the Mongols.

Cheers

[Aristonicus]

The Mongol Field Experiment Report

Last Sunday saw my Mongol Army's first tournament win (4-2) - versus a Sumatran invasion of the Steppe. My two losses were both LH from his bow fire. Lost the other four tournament games, but only one was a shattering defeat. In that game (against the Burmese, loss ratio 6-2) my artillery was left behind the main battle line before being overrun by his sole cavalry unit. My LH managed to kill two of his Auxilia before his Elephants wiped out my right flank.
I also played a friendly game against the Post Mongol Russian player who had just whipped me 4-1, this time I turned the tables and managed a 4-2 win. How? Firstly, my artillery killed his War Wagon. Secondly, he split his cavalry force to go around a forest, on the other side his 3 x Cav was met by 5 x LH, who stopped and then started to encircle them (closed the door and killed 1). On the right flank 2 of my Cav and 1 LH held off another three of his Cav before splitting them up and killing 2. What had helped in this game was certainly my higher PIP rolls.

Lessons:
1. Protect your artillery, it is vital against Elephants and War Wagons
2. Your LH will be equal or even superior to Warband and Auxilia, so you can mask an entire flank with them if faced with an enemy army of that type. (If they attack you uphill so much the better)
3. If the enemy splits his main force, use your superior mobility to defeat him in detail.

Oddly, I found a defensive style of play more successful than my usual aggresive advances. In my two victories I capitalized on my opponents errors. High PIP rolls are recommended.

[Adrian Williams]

I wussed out on taking Mongol and took Ghaznavid at the last minute - they were great

Adrian Williams