HISTORICON 2003

[xeswop]

Time to start thinking about H'Con '03. First let's consider the board size issue:

I see three options available for the NASAMW official 15mm events:
1. An event is fixed as either 24" or 32" by the Judge of that game, and it is always that size board.
2. An event is defaulted to a board size, either 24" or 32" BUT the DEFENDER can choose to use the other size board, if he/she has one available (NASAMW 24" boards are always available).
3. An event is defaulted to a board size, either 24" or 32" BUT if BOTH players agree, the other size can be used, if one has that size available (NASAMW 24" boards are always available)

We will not have enough tables to use double tables, so the 32" boards must fit on one table.

I would like to hear from all folks who plan to play at Historicon, and others who want to comment too, thanks


BB games will be played on 24" by 48" boards unless both teams agree to use and some one can furnish 32" 64" boards. Option 3. We will not have enough tables to use double tables, so the boards must fit on one table.

[Hannibal Ad Portas]

For DBA...I would prefer the option that the defender chooses whether the board will be 24" or 32"......this seems to make the best sense when we are using the aggression ratings. After a recent BBDBA tourney, I must say that I favor bigger tables for this game. BBDBA as written only doubles the playing area but trebles the number of troops!!! This seemed to lead to head- on clashes and cut down on maneuver (probably more realistic, but is it fun as a game??). Also, please make some rules regarding army composition in BBDBA....I saw some crazy things at our tourney, such as an Anglo-Norman army with 3 war wagons!! Only one should ever be present. Same would go for the Inca Litter, the Hebrew Ark..etc.

[Ed Dillon]

Originally posted by Hannibal Ad Portas:
Also, please make some rules regarding army composition in BBDBA....I saw some crazy things at our tourney, such as an Anglo-Norman army with 3 war wagons!! Only one should ever be present. Hey now, watch yourself.... ;) _I_ played with 3 Anglo-Norman WWgs at the BBDBA tourney in Columbus, OH last December..... Even if it was gamier than my old socks. redface.gif
Ed
BTW, I prefer boards to be the size listed in the rules, unless already advertised different or unless as part of themed tournament. If you want to run a tourney of 32-inch boards, then make sure that everybody knows that going into the tourney. I think that some structure is preferred.

[ May 12, 2003, 03:30: Message edited by: Ed Dillon ]

[Bmacster]

Originally posted by Hannibal Ad Portas:
Also, please make some rules regarding army composition in BBDBA....I saw some crazy things at our tourney, such as an Anglo-Norman army with 3 war wagons!! Only one should ever be present. Same would go for the Inca Litter, the Hebrew Ark..etc. Interesting? I agree 100%. In many cases, the single War Wagon (or elephant in other cases) already represents a unit much larger than it actually was. Using up to three of them makes the situation much worse. I do like having the option for one, has PB discusses elsewhere. Adds a bit of flavor to the army. However, it's too bad PB didn't put these restrictions in the list. A simple note would of done the trick.

But, if I'm going to spout off like this, I should join the DBA tourney, shouldn't I. Maybe I will this year. I usually will enter the DBM tourney, if I enter one at all. We will see.

Regards,

[Pozanias]

I prefer option 1, having a set board size predetermined and announced by the event's organizer.

This just seems simpler and fairer to me.

Mark

[xeswop]

DBA Schedule for Historicon

All NASAMW events will use DBA 2.1 if finalized by July 1. If not, then DBA 2.0 will be used as adjusted by the provisional 2.1 BUA amendments as noted below. All other details will be posted in by the end of May with the NASMW interpretations at
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/dba/bobcmts3.html

See all of the amendments at the bottom of this page. Those with a * are changes that really clarify the current rules and will be incorporated into the Commentary noted above and so apply to Historicon. Those with "BUA" relate to the use of BUA's and will be used. Those marked ? are changes from the current rules and will be used only if Phil says the amendments are to be official. Camp size rule changes will not be used.
----------------------------------
Also see below for the scoring system to be used in all events except the Midnight Madness which is single elimination.
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Events
Thursday 24 July 2003
5:00-9:30 p.m.
Hoplite Heyday 32" square boards
I. 35d - Cypriot and Phoenician
I.47 - Illyrian
I.48 - Thracian
I.53 Saitic Egyptian (no HCh (Gen) option)
I.54 - Early Macedonian
I.56 - Kyrenean Greek
I. 60c - Early Achaemenid Persian
I. 61 - Early Carthaginian
I. 62 - Lykian
II. 5 - Later Hoplite Greek (any sublist)
II. 6 - Bithynian (no warband option)
II. 7 - Later Achaemenid Persian
II. 8 - Campanian, Apulian, Lucanian or Bruttian
II. 9 - Syracusan
II. 13 - Samnite

10pm - ???
Midnight Madness 24" boards

Friday 25 July
9:00am - 6:30 pm
Tony Bath Big Battle Doubles 24" by 60 boards. If there are more than 12 teams, the finals will be arranged at the convenience of the two teams.

A squad of 3 players will be allowed to participate. This has been requested and the precedent for this was set at the first TBBBD event. Any 2 of the 3 players are designated to play in a game and do so until completion. The extra player will take no part in that game, even to discuss the game with the other two. If one player becomes incapacitated and cannot play, the current partner must play alone. This is also the case if the squad has only 2 players. Only two prizes will be awarded to a team of 3. This is a convenience for players who have schedule conflict or need a break.

7:30pm - 12m
25mm Open 48" square boards

Saturday 26 July
9am - 1pm
Dick Bryant Open Duplicate Tournament: players take all four sides of two games with preset armies and terrain provided. One game will be 25mm Early Imperial Romans vs Britions. The other will be Lake Peipus on 32" boards.

7:30pm - 12m +:
National Invitational Championship Tournament (NICT). Board sizes being decided upon. Probably two groupings, one with 32" and one with 24" boards with self-selection by players. Finals will be in 25mm with Crusader Theme armies as requested by NASAMW.

7:30- 10:30pm
Teen Open. For players not yet 21. Some games on 24" some on 32" to give players experience on both sizes.

Sunday 27 July
9am - 12n
Open Themes. Some events will be on 24" boards and some on 36" boards. The exact armies for each period will be posted shortly.
The following themes will be run on 32" square boards:
1) MEDIEVAL EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST, AND WESTERN STEPPES (mid 11th C. on)
2) GREEK CLASSICAL (600BC-146BC)
3) ASIA AND EASTERN STEPPES
The following themes will be run on 24" square boards:
1) BIBLICAL, plus STONE-AGE PACIFIC AND AMERICAS
2) ROMAN CLASSICAL (146BC-493AD)
3) DARK AGES EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST AND WESTERN STEPPES (493AD-mid11thC.)

___________________________________
Scoring System
Singles Game DBA Scoring System

Victory Conditions Met (one player destroys 4 enemy or general and that is more than is lost or play until one has lost more if tied at 5, if there is time.)

Winner:
25 points minus Loser points total.

Loser:
1 point for each enemy element killed or fled off board.
2 points extra for killing enemy General.
2 points extra if enemy camp/BUA is taken and occupied at end of game.

Victory Conditions NOT Met (that is generally when one player has not lost 4 elements and more than enemy or if tied in elements lost at the end of time)

Each player/team:
1 point for each enemy element killed or fled off map.
2 points extra for killing enemy General.
2 points extra if enemy camp/BUA is taken and occupied at end of game.

So one player wins 4-2. The player with only 2 lost is the winner and gets 23 points. The loser gets 2 points.

At the end of time, both players have lost 2 elements, then each gets 2 points

Tie Break:
1) Head to Head Result
2) Countback
3) Umpire's Discretion

Note:
This point system was designed to work for many different formats and styles of DBA events. It should provide consistent and clear results, while still functioning in a simple manner. Game scores can still be reported to the Umpire according to the standard 4-2, 3G-1, format. The Umpire can then calculate the points scores and countback results, etc.

Countback:

Countback is determined at the end of the event, the umpire adds up the point totals for each of a players opponents. So, in a 4 round event player A plays B, C, D, and E. B scores 94 points. C scores 12 points. D scores 28 points. E scores 51 points.
94 + 12 + 28 + 51 = 185. So, player A's countback score would be 185. This is used to break a tie if A had a total score equal to another player and they had perhaps tied. Or if three players had each beaten another A>B>C>A
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PROVISIONAL AMMENDMENTS UPGRADING DBA 2.0 to 2.1
Which will be used at Historicon?
Items marked BUA will be used. Items marked * will be used. Items marked ? will be used if amendments are official by July 1. The camp size amendments will not apply until Fall In.
Page 6.
BUA - Paragraph 4. Line 2. Insert “or Road” after “BUA”.
BUA - Paragraph 8. Line 4. Delete “battlefield …edge”. Substitute “2 battlefield edges”.
Page 7.
These amendment will not apply as there is not enough time for people to make new camps -
Paragraph 2. Line 2. Delete “6”. Substitute “4”.
Lines 4-5. Delete “It must include”. Substitute “around”.
Line 5. Insert “single” before “troop”. Delete “and”. Substitute “It
must”.
Page 8.
BUA - Paragraph 1. Line 3. Delete “that”. Substitute “either of the 2 edges”.

BUA - Paragraph 4. Line 2. Insert “or movement in a BUA.” after “dismounting”.
Page 9.
Paragraph 4.
? - Line 1. Delete “or camp”.
* Line 2. Delete “contact or face”. Substitute “move into contact with or line up opposite”. (this change makes clear that an element in the zone of control can either move into contact or it can line up opposite, it cannot move closer if already aligned)

Page 10.
? - Paragraph 2. Line 7. Change “2” to “2 or 3”, “both” to “all”, “2nd” to “2nd and 3rd”.
Insert “the contactor making room” after “1st“.
Lines 7-8. Delete “If a 3rd….recoils.”
(this is a major change)
Paragraph 4. (this is a major change)
?- Line 3. Insert full stop after “Wagons”. Insert “if shooting” after “Artillery”.
? - Line 8. Insert “Artillery if in close combat.” After “Psiloi”.
BUA - Paragraph 5. Line 4. Delete “or attacking a BUA”.
BUA - Paragraph 6. Line 1. Insert “or attacking a BUA or camp” after “troops”.
BUA - Paragraph 7. Line 2. Change “+4” to “+3”.
* - Line 6. Change “-corner” to “-front corner”.
* - Line 7. Insert “full front edge contact with” before “rear”. (these two clarify the current rule)

Page 11.
BUA - Paragraph 3. Line 16. Change “garrisoning a BUA” to “ in a BUA or Camp”.
BUA - Paragraph 5. Line 4. Insert “unless from a BUA” after “rear edge”.
* -Line 7. Delete “only”. Substitute “, or contacted on a rear corner”.
* - Paragraph 7. Line 2. Change “providing it with” to “that provided”.
BUA - Line 3. Change “garrisoning” to “in”.

[ May 22, 2003, 11:52: Message edited by: xes*** ]

[El' Jocko]

Thanks Bob, for pulling together all of the DBA info.

One clarification on Sunday's Open Themes:

The following themes will be run on 32" square boards:
1) MEDIEVAL EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST, AND WESTERN STEPPES (mid 11th C. on)
2) GREEK CLASSICAL (600BC-146BC)
3) ASIA AND EASTERN STEPPES

The following themes will be run on 24" square boards:
1) BIBLICAL, plus STONE-AGE PACIFIC AND AMERICAS
2) ROMAN CLASSICAL (146BC-493AD)
3) DARK AGES EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST AND WESTERN STEPPES (493AD-mid11thC.)

- Jack

[David Schlanger]

In the DBA Scoring example, the 4-2 game should be scored 23 points for the winner, 2 points for the loser.

DS

[Redwilde]

Any chance of moving up Thursday's schedule so the Hoplite game starts at 6pm when the dealer hall closes?

[Pozanias]

Originally posted by Redwilde:
Any chance of moving up Thursday's schedule so the Hoplite game starts at 6pm when the dealer hall closes? Hi Redwilde,

I actually sent you an email directly before you posted (I don't know if you received it), because I know you expressed a preference for 6:00pm or later previously.

As you were the only one to express a preference, that is the time slot I originally picked. However, it was decided that Midnight Madness should be moved up to 10:00pm (which I happen to support - having myself been sleep deprived on many occaisions due to MM). At first my reaction was just to condense Hoplite Heyday to fit into the now smaller time slot. But after thinking it through, I didn't think it would be a good idea to rush the event, so I moved it to 5:00pm.

Having said that, if you can't make it until 6:00 -- I am very happy for you to begin participating starting in the 2nd round. That will still give you 3 games! Depending on the number of players we have, I will work out something special for your "missed" first round game.

This is a competitive event, but mostly I want it to be a fun event for everyone involved -- so I don't think anyone should have a problem with this.

If you (or anyone else) wants to discuss off-line, my email address is markpozniak@yahoo.com.

Mark

[Pozanias]

Originally posted by xes***:
DBA Schedule for Historicon

----------------------------------
Events
Thursday 24 July 2003
5:00-9:30 p.m. Hoplite Heyday 32" square boards
I.47 - Illyrian
I.48 - Thracian
I.53 Saitic Egyptian (no HCh (Gen) option)
I.54 - Early Macedonian
I.56 - Kyrenean Greek
I. 60c - Early Achaemenid Persian
I. 61 - Early Carthaginian
I. 62 - Lykian
II. 5 - Later Hoplite Greek (any sublist)
II. 6 - Bithynian (no warband option)
II. 7 - Later Achaemenid Persian
II. 8 - Campanian, Apulian, Lucanian or Bruttian
II. 9 - Syracusan
II. 13 - Samnite

Ooopps. Just noticed one more small mistake... the list of eligible armies for Hoplite Heyday should include:

I. 35d - Cypriot and Phoenician

Thanks for catching that Redwilde.

[ May 14, 2003, 22:52: Message edited by: Pozanias ]