Free Company and Armonacs

[Haardrada]

Can anyone remember the latest version of this list as revised for version 3.0? If so could you remind of it please?I am considering opposition for my Late Swiss.

Regards
Eddie

Sorry Thats Armagnacs,damn mobile key pads!

[vodnik]

...no more dismounting and also no more artillery but auxilia from 11. 12. 2011
IV/74 Free Company or Armagnac 1357 - 1410 & 1444: 1xKn(Gen), 3xKn or Bd, 2xKn or Bd or Sp, 1xKn, 4xBw, 1xBW or Ps or Ax... but you newer know...

[Haardrada]

many thanks Vodnik. : )

[Kretus]

Hi All
It was written that army books for lists III and IV are already done, but are still unknown for most players. I have only one question to those who has seen it. Will a cannon element and dismount option be removed from Free Company list ? I'm already buying and painting a new army, soI'll be grateful for answer.

Also, I hope that Later Castilian list won't change much?


Best regards
Andrzej Kręt

[lkmjbc]

Andrzej:

The lists aren't completely finished... but I don't imagine they will change much...

The artillery is gone.
The Knt General and 3x other knights may dismount. The two German/Spanish Knts do not dismount. The list also has an option for two English archers that are mounted infantry.

I hope this helps...

Joe Collins

[Martin Smith]

I've not been an avid follower of 3.0 development, so pardon my ignorance:- is dismounting still a feature in 3.0, or not? If still in the draft rules, are there many armies left with dismountable elements? Any notable omissions?
Martin

[Menacus Secundus]

I've not been an avid follower of 3.0 development, so pardon my ignorance:- is dismounting still a feature in 3.0, or not? If still in the draft rules, are there many armies left with dismountable elements? Any notable omissions?
Martin

The latest draft indicates that some armies will continue to have mounted elements which can dismount at any point during the game, but until the army lists are available, most of us are in the dark as to whether the number which have dismounting elements has gone up, down or remained about the same.

I thought at first that the wording ("a few army lists permit some of their mounted elements to dismount...") betokened a reduction, but when I checked I realised that this is identical to the wording in v2.2.

Menacus

[timurilank]

Andrzej:

The lists aren't completely finished... but I don't imagine they will change much...

The artillery is gone.
The Knt General and 3x other knights may dismount. The two German/Spanish Knts do not dismount. The list also has an option for two English archers that are mounted infantry.

I hope this helps...

Joe Collins

Thanks for listing the army. I nearly bought figures for this list which would have included an artillery piece. Did not place the order as I wanted to finish the Italian Condotta before ordering new.

I suppose mounted infantry will follow along the lines of the DBM(M) army lists so we may see mounted pavisiers as well as archers for Book IV Medieval.

[Kretus]

Also thanks !
Bad news for me. I've already painted all 21 elements and I see some of them will no longer be usable in this army. I'll have to press them into another army and repaint coats of arms.

Lkmjbc - could you present us full list if it's not trade secret ? ;) Have bad feelings about spears elements....

[timurilank]

[QUOTE=Kretus;153124]Also thanks !
Bad news for me. I've already painted all 21 elements and I see some of them will no longer be usable in this army. I'll have to press them into another army and repaint coats of arms. QUOTE]

Just a suggestion, but I would paint the artillerist without coat of arms. All mine are mercenaries hired by the various German states. Only the artillerists from the Duchy of Trento would have clothing in the city colours.

[Kretus]

I mean blades (dismounted knights), perhaps spears and knights (I see 4 instead 5 blades, 6 instead 7 knights). Artillerist are without.

[timurilank]

If the coat of arms are generic then perhaps adding a flag to the base might be an easier option. Just an idea. :D

[lkmjbc]

Also thanks !
Bad news for me. I've already painted all 21 elements and I see some of them will no longer be usable in this army. I'll have to press them into another army and repaint coats of arms.

Lkmjbc - could you present us full list if it's not trade secret ? ;) Have bad feelings about spears elements....

I'm not sure if I should... but better to beg forgiveness than ask permission...

1x Gen 3Knt/4Bd
3x 3Kn/4Bd
2x 3Kn
3x 4Lb
2x 4Sp or 4LB mnt.
1x 4Cb or Ps or Lh

I hope this helps you buying and painting your army.

Joe Collins

[Kretus]

Thank you very much, I'm saved now.

Free Company will remain intact, and instead of Castilians I'll paint a condotta army. Cannon and some knights have found a new home :)

[Macbeth]

1x Gen 3Knt/4Bd
3x 3Kn/4Bd
2x 3Kn
3x 4Lb
2x 4Sp or 4LB mnt.
1x 4Cb or Ps or Lh


Kretus,

there is one other point to mention with this list Kn/Bd is different from Kn//Bd in that you cannot dismount during the game - I think you can choose at deployment ;)

Cheers

[Menacus Secundus]

Kretus,

there is one other point to mention with this list Kn/Bd is different from Kn//Bd in that you cannot dismount during the game - I think you can choose at deployment ;)

Cheers

I'm not saying this isn't correct, but if the elements can't be swapped over during the game, I don't understand the difference between "3 x 3Kn/4Bd" and "3 x 3Kn or 4Bd" (and if there is no difference, why have two ways of saying the same thing?)

[Macbeth]

I think it might be

a) that the single slash is an all or none option (ie is the equivalent of 3x4Kn or 3x4Bd) you can't have a mix of Kn and Bd in this option

b) in the case of Kn/Bd and only in this case you can decide at deployment which you want to use - If I remember correctly that is how it was in DBA 1.0 - options of Kn or Bd and Art or anything could pick and choose options each battle - any other options were meant to be chosen for the duration.

DBA2 did away with the pick and choose OR options but brought in the dismounting // option ;)

Cheers

[Kretus]

Macbeth.
In Poland we agreed to use dismount only at deployment and I always play that way. So it will not hurt me ;)
But you are right, i haven't noticed that change.

[Menacus Secundus]

Macbeth

Thanks for the explanation. It will be interesting to see how the final version of the army lists turns out.

Menacus

[Macbeth]

Macbeth.
In Poland we agreed to use dismount only at deployment and I always play that way. So it will not hurt me ;)

It has been the Australian Standard too ;)

However in the tournaments I ran I allow later dismounting but it could not be a group move.

There were a number of frustrated Kn//Bd commanders who discovered that they had to start the game mounted and so risked having a BUA that they planned to garrison with Bd having to start the game with Kn manning the walls :D

Cheers

[Bobgnar]

To be in keeping with the additional complexity of 3.0, there are now all sorts of types of special mounted. There are those that can dismount in any bound of the game, by single elements. Must stay dismounted
"An element that uses its move to dismount is exchanged (with its front edge in the same place) for the foot type, then moves in later bounds as that foot. It cannot dismount in an enemy Threat Zone (TZ)."

Then there are mounted that can start the game as either mounted or dismounted. No change allowed during the game.

There is Mounted Infantry, that moves like mounted but fights as the foot type. Most Bows. Note that Bows that move more than 1 Bw cannot shoot. Mtd Infantry can take second and subsequent moves.

Then there is a special Knight, the 4Kn, which takes two pips to move and does not pursue.

Then there are 6Kn and 6Cav that are +1 when in frontal close combat in good going against enemy foot. The first one lost counts as 2 elements.

Maybe others, I cannot remember all the additions and changes.

[Menacus Secundus]

To be in keeping with the additional complexity of 3.0, there are now all sorts of types of special mounted.
........
Then there is a special Knight, the 4Kn, which takes two pips to move and does not pursue.
.......
Maybe others, I cannot remember all the additions and changes.

Bob

The latest draft I have seen (which was circulated at the start of August) doesn't say anything about 4Kn taking an extra PIP to move. As I have a Parthian army that is working its way to the front of the painting queue, I hope that you have misremembered.

Denis

[timurilank]

Bob

The latest draft I have seen (which was circulated at the start of August) doesn't say anything about 4Kn taking an extra PIP to move. As I have a Parthian army that is working its way to the front of the painting queue, I hope that you have misremembered.

Denis

I have that draft as well and the extra pip requirement is for Elephants, War Wagons, Horde and Artillery when moving as a single element or group.

An element of Knights, Warband, Scythed Chariot, Elephants or Horde pursue 1BW, however 4Kn do not.

[Bobgnar]

I mentioned this rule because I thought Phil was going to post a new version to the Yahoo group. Here's the full rule. The Parthians and the Tibetans and a few other armies not become pretty stodgy.

This rule is supposed to compensate for the fact that the 4Kn do not pursue. One complexity leads to another.

Well at least the Parthian Lighthorse are not subject to any command-and-control. Send them roaming around behind enemy lines While the knights lineup and charge forward.
-----
Except in the side’s 1st bound, a move that uses a PIP uses up an extra PIP for each of the 2 cases following that apply:
(a) If the element or group to be moved includes any Elephants, 4Kn Knights, Hordes, War Wagons, Artillery, denizens or camp followers or is an element currently garrisoning a city, fort or camp.
(b) If its general’s element has been lost or is entirely in a BUA, camp, Wood, Oasis, Marsh or Gully; or if the element or group to be moved starts more than command distance from its general. Command distance is 20 BW if entirely Light Horse. Otherwise, it is 8 BW, except that this is reduced to 4 BW if entirely either beyond the crest of a Hill, beyond a BUA or a camp, on or beyond a Difficult Hill, or in or beyond a Wood, Oasis or Dunes.

[Menacus Secundus]

Bugger! Thanks Bob. Okay Parthians, get to the back of the queue!*

* back of the line for readers in the US.

[lkmjbc]

Bugger! Thanks Bob. Okay Parthians, get to the back of the queue!*

* back of the line for readers in the US.

LOL... I'm not sure that the extra pip for 4Kn will make the final cut. It was pretty roundly criticized by the play test group. It may or not be there in the final rules.

Joe Collins

[Kingo]

It has been the Australian Standard too ;)

However in the tournaments I ran I allow later dismounting but it could not be a group move.

There were a number of frustrated Kn//Bd commanders who discovered that they had to start the game mounted and so risked having a BUA that they planned to garrison with Bd having to start the game with Kn manning the walls :D

Cheers

Hope we will stick to the rule book when 3 is published, I hate these one off rules for tournaments.

Kingo

[Doug]

Hope we will stick to the rule book when 3 is published, I hate these one off rules for tournaments.

Kingo

I much prefer not to allow dismounting in the course of the game. It just makes the Kn//Bd armies much too strong, and open competitions get very boring when everyone brings either French or Burgundians...

[Kingo]

I much prefer not to allow dismounting in the course of the game. It just makes the Kn//Bd armies much too strong, and open competitions get very boring when everyone brings either French or Burgundians...

Matched pairs is the way to go :up, my 28mm will appear :D

Kingo

[Bobgnar]

From what I can tell from the new army lists, there are very few knights that dismount to blades. Not Hundred years war English or French or Burgundian anymore. They are either mounted or dismounted at the start of the game. I think there's one army in list 4 and a couple for list three . Phil feels that these armies historically did Dismounts during the battle. So you can play historically or you can play not historically by not allowing dismounting. Trojan and Achaean chariots and some other Greek and war band army chariots can dismount during the game. Matched pairs is certainly the way to go for most games. Then both sides can dismount or one can pick dismounting troops or not.