3Pk

[Pavane]

I am happy to see that Phil has created a new, unnamed troop type: 3Pk. Previously he was going to demote the Picts, Welsh, etc. from Spear to Auxilia, but in the latest 3.0 version that does not appear to be the case. It is a good decision that will make Dark Ages battles more interesting. I don't understand why he resists doing something similar for 3Bd, but he seems to want to try side support for Spear instead.

[David Schlanger]

It appears it took him 10 months and 2.2+ in order to warm up to the idea of 3Sp/3Pk. Perhaps it was also dependent on the messenger.

DS

[jacar]

Not sure why 3Pk is necessary. The Ax already got an upgrade to +3 v Mounted. The 3Pk is essentially a "super" Ax. It is also a very specific unit that probably only appears in two armies. It adds a layer of gray instead of the usual black and white differentiation of other DBA units.

[Pavane]

Not sure why 3Pk is necessary. The Ax already got an upgrade to +3 v Mounted. The 3Pk is essentially a "super" Ax. It is also a very specific unit that probably only appears in two armies. It adds a layer of gray instead of the usual black and white differentiation of other DBA units.

3Pk still move slower than Ax - a big difference. There are more than two armies (assuming that 3Sp translates to 3Pk). Courtesy of DS:

3Sp – Light Spear in the 2.2 Army Lists

I/4. Zagros and Anatulian Highlanders. 3000BC-950BC.
(b) Guti 2250-2112BC: 2x3Ax or 3Sp or 4Pk

I/5. Early Susiana and Elam. 3000BC-800BC.
(b) 2600-2101BG 1x3Bd or 3Sp

I/10. Melukhkhan and Pre-Vedic lndian. 2700BC-1500BC.
1x3Sp (Gen), 3x3/4Sp

I/11. Akkadian 2334BC-2193BC & 3rd Dynasty of Ur. 2112BC-2004BC.
(a) 2334-2193BC: 2x3Sp or 4Pk
(b) 2112-2004BC: 2x3Sp

I/12. Sumerian Successor States. 2028BC-1460BC.
4x3Sp or 4Pk

I/14. Early Northern Barbarians. 2000BC-315BC.
(d) Europe 1400-701BC: 1x3Cv or 3Sp, 6x3Sp

I/16. Hittite Old and Middle Kingdom. 1680BC-1380BC.
1xLCh or 3Sp, 1x3Bd or 3Sp, 6x3Sp

I/24. Hittite Empire. 1380BC-1180BC.
(a) 1380-1275BC: 6x3Sp
(b) 1274-1180BC: 6x3Sp

I/32. Western Chou and Spring & Autumn Chinese. 1100BC-480BC.
(b) Wu or Yueh 584-480BC: 4x3Sp, 2x3Wb or 3Sp
(c) Others 700-480BC: 4x3Sp

I/49. Early Vietnamese. 700BC-938AD.
(b) 206-111BC: 2x3/4Sp

II/68. Pictish. 211AD-846AD.
(a) 211-499AD: 5x3Sp, 1x3Sp or 3/4Wb
(b) 500-846AD: 1x3Cv or 3Sp (Gen), 6x3Sp

III/19. Welsh. 580AD-1420AD.
(c) 1100-1420AD (North): 8x3Sp, 3x3Lb or 3Sp or 2Ps.

III/45. Pre-Feudal Scots. 846AD-1124AD.
(a) 846-1051AD: 5x3Sp, 2x3Sp or 3Wb
(b) 1052-1124AD: 5x3Sp, 2x3Sp or 3Wb

III/56. Koryo Dynasty Korean. 918AD-1392AD.
1x3Cv or 3Sp or Art or 2Ps.

III/63. Ghaznavid. 962AD-1186AD.
(a) 962-1001AD: 1x4Ax or 3Sp

IV/3. Anglo-Norman. 1072AD-1181AD.
1xWWg or 3Cv or 3Sp.

IV/4. Feudal French. 1072AD-1330AD.
(b) 1151-1330AD: 3x3/4Sp

IV/8. Ghurid. 1100AD-1215AD.
6x3Sp or 4Pk

IV/12. Polynesian or Melanesian. 1100AD-1785AD.
(b) Melanesian: 1x3Sp (Gen), 9x3Sp

IV/13. Medieval German. 1106AD-1519AD.
(c) 1450-1478AD: 2x3/4Sp

IV/23. Feudal English. 1181AD-1322AD.
1x3/4Sp, 1x3Cv//3Sp or 2Ps or 4Cb.

IV/39. Navarrese. 1234AD-1430AD.
(a) 1234»1327AD: 1x3Sp
(b) 1328-1378AD: 1x3Sp

IV/59. Post-Mongol Samurai. 1300AD-1542AD.
(b) 1465-1542AD: 1x3Sp, 4x5Wb or 4x7Hd or 4x3Sp.

IV/62. 100 Years War English. 1322AD-1455AD.
1x3Sp or 2Ps

IV/64. Medieval French. 1330AD-1445AD.
(a) 1330-1345AD: 2x3Sp, 1x3Sp or 7Hd.
(b) 1346-1418AD: 2x3Sp or 3Bw or 7Hd.
(c) 1419-1445AD: (4x4Pk Scots -- not if ally) or (2x3Sp + 2x4Cb), 1x3Sp or 7Hd or Art.

IV/70. Chanca. 1350AD-1440AD.
1x3Sp or Lit (Gen), 5x3Sp, 2x3Sp or 3Wb, 1x3Sp or 3Ax

IV/74. Free Company or Armagnac. 1357AD-1410AD & 1444AD.
2x3Kn//4Bd or 3Kn//4Sp or 3Sp

IV/75. Timurid. 1360AD-1506AD.
1x3Sp or 3Ax

IV/83. Wars of the Roses: English. 1455AD-1487AD.
(a) 1455-1485AD: 1xArt or 3Sp

[Ammianus]

Thanks Will, completely missed that item...3PK, hmmm.

[Macbeth]

It appears it took him 10 months and 2.2+ in order to warm up to the idea of 3Sp/3Pk. Perhaps it was also dependent on the messenger.

DS

I'd like to think that my fingerprints are at least partially on the weapon. I don't know what went on beforehand but

I theorized about the option here of Fanaticus after hearing that all 3Sp would become Ax

I presented said theorizing pretty much verbatim to the playtest group

Recieved my slapping down with good grace

Saw the creation of 3Pk some weeks later :D

Cheers

[Pavane]

I'd like to think that my fingerprints are at least partially on the weapon. I don't know what went on beforehand but

I theorized about the option here of Fanaticus after hearing that all 3Sp would become Ax

I presented said theorizing pretty much verbatim to the playtest group

Recieved my slapping down with good grace

Saw the creation of 3Pk some weeks later :D

Cheers
I likely won't be playing 3.0, but you helped remove one of several obstacles.

[lkmjbc]

I likely won't be playing 3.0, but you helped remove one of several obstacles.

Side support allows the elimination of rear psiloi support. It helps with the Bd vs Sp matchup regardless of the Bd type. It also makes Sp vs Sp battles more interesting.

3.0 is improving. Warband needs some work... and the new Knights recoil on ties needs playtesting. DBEs need some tweaks (probably the same flank support as their normal sized counterparts).

Bows are better, but still not to my vision. You will still have longbowmen climbing the Alps to rain arrows down on the Swiss... amoung other weirdness.

This problem may be unfixable.

Things are moving forward though.

I wish I had time for 2.2+ play testing... Perhaps soon.

Joe Collins

[Pavane]

Side support allows the elimination of rear psiloi support. It helps with the Bd vs Sp matchup regardless of the Bd type. It also makes Sp vs Sp battles more interesting.

3.0 is improving. Warband needs some work... and the new Knights recoil on ties needs playtesting. DBEs need some tweaks (probably the same flank support as their normal sized counterparts).

Bows are better, but still not to my vision. You will still have longbowmen climbing the Alps to rain arrows down on the Swiss... amoung other weirdness.

This problem may be unfixable.

Things are moving forward though.

I wish I had time for 2.2+ play testing... Perhaps soon.

Joe Collins
Joe, you seem to have a positive impact with your suggestions, play testing, and LE's abuse.

Just like some people think 2.2+ goes too far, 3.0 goes too far for me. I do want to applaud 3.0 when they make progress (IMHO).