Conforming Illustration

[Redwilde]

The conforming rules are the same as in HotT. There's a super clear illustration on p.70 in the HotT book (p.40 in the .pdf).

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OksJrrDKkSE/T0fqlykbt-I/AAAAAAAAAXc/nn00Jk_b_P0/s512/HOTTConform.jpg

[DGove]

Can I just ask why it is that if the single element doesn't have room to recoil, it doesn't have to conform?

In my limited understanding of these things, if your opponent has maneuvered himself into that position, doesn't that fall into the category of "his fault, his problem"...?

What am I missing?

Cheers,

Derek

[Xavi]

I guess the reasoning is the "Creative contacting" that you can do under 2.2.

Move your group wheeling it to contact the enemy so that when it conforms it has an impeded recoil. Really easy to do in 2.2, and a common/easy/cheap (pick your choice) way to kill pesky Ps and LH.

Xavi

[DGove]

Hmmm..

I see two possibilities.
1) Group AB wheel and contact C, who if he loses, cannot recoil, and is destroyed.

2) The rule states that C cannot conform to group AB if he does not have room to recoil. However, if the rule was ignored, and he did conform, and was then beaten, and recoiled, he'd be destroyed. Just like 1) above. What's the difference? Am I just being thick?

Derek

[Xavi]

Picture this:

A line of 5 Bd.
In front of it, ther eis a lonely Psiloi. The ps is 15mm in front of the Bd and perfectly parallel to the Bd line. it breaks the ZOC of 2 of the Bd.

Now a pair of LH come running in and contact the Psiloi AT A SLIGHT ANGLE.
Under current 2.2 rules the Ps would need to conform to the pair of LH (group contacting a lonely Ps) in the open. That means that once he has aligned the Ps cannot recoil, and will be destroyed if it recoils (less than 200mm space to recoil) since it will hit the Bd line at an angle.

This is what happens in 2.2. I guess the new rule tries to prevent this. I think that this is the Psiloi's (tactical) problem, not a rules problem per se, but that is me. The Ps player should have been smarter if he wants to prevent that result.

Now, since 2.2+ tries to generalize the Ps case to *all* single elements in the same situation, this rule has been introduced from HOTT.

Cheers,
Xavi

[david kuijt]

Can I just ask why it is that if the single element doesn't have room to recoil, it doesn't have to conform?

In my limited understanding of these things, if your opponent has maneuvered himself into that position, doesn't that fall into the category of "his fault, his problem"...?

What am I missing?


In the example shown, nothing. (If I understand you correctly).

If you are asking why the rule wasn't written so any single element had to conform regardless of recoil, that answer is easy -- because (as Xavi says) it is absolutely trivial to crush single Ps and LH in v2.2 against their friendly lines. Even if they start perfectly aligned, there is almost always a way to move, make column, or something so that a pair or more of elements hits the LH/Ps in such a way as to force it to change alignment and have no recoil. Good players have become so adept at this maneuver in tournaments that the angels weep. And as a result, nobody ever skirmishes with LH or Ps in single elements.

So if the situation is as shown in the example, sure, the attacking group can use their align-in-ZOC ability to still hit the solo element and make it die if recoiled, but they cannot turn it -- because if they could turn it, the side effects in other situations (where a recoil does exist pre-maneuvering) is a disaster.

Does that clarify things?

[DGove]

Thanks David and Xavi, that helps clear things up.

In the situation given in the HotT diagram, it didn't seem to make much of a difference. And you're right David, I was wondering why not just make ALL single elements conform. Now I know why not. :)

Cheers,

Derek

[dervel]

Sorry for the stupid question guys….

But I was reading the HOTT example last night. My confusion was this…

So in the HOTT example 2 above, turning the element C would actually allow it to recoil (aligned with the element behind it)? Where not turning prevents it from recoiling..

Do I understand this correctly?

A single element does not conform to a group if conforming would change the elements ability to recoil after conforming. Either allowing it to recoil when it could not before contact, or preventing it from recoiling when it could have prior to conforming.


And is this the same in 2.2? 2.2+?

[Xavi]

You got it right.

In 2.2 single elements do NOT conform. The contacting group is the one that must conform. HTe exception is single Ps or LH in good going. In that case they conform to the group when the group touches them, regardless of this allowing them to recoil or not.

In 2.2+ the rule reads like the one in HOTT above

Xavi

[dervel]

Thanks Xavi....

I am fairly new to the world of DBA and HOTT, but have jumped in with both feet :P

Plus dragged a bunch of my gaming buddies in as well :)

We are preparing a giant HOTT event for Origins at the end of May. So I was studying this very diagram last night.

[DGove]

Sorry for the stupid question guys….

No, don't apologise... If other people post THEIR 'stupid questions', then my stupid questions have some company.

:D

Derek

[Xavi]

I do not find either question to be stupid at all. DBA is a great game, but not one that has the clearest language ever, heh :) HOTT helped a lot in the understanding of stuff, but it is still tricky in some points to get things straight.