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Sea Weathered Aketons
02-09-2012, 12:43 PM
I'm sitting here trying to find optimism in playing hoplites in the coming 3.0
era and one thing after reading Phil Barker's comments a week or so ago relates to forward deployments. There is some optimism here to be had. I guess you can deploy much further up the table which would help a slower moving hoplite army get into action sooner and thus thwart inferior troops trying to avoid contact.

In the old days of 7th Edition, I could "force march" to the center line by
paying 2 fatigue points and be in the face of my enemy (similar to a Marathon-like charge) but, also that much closer to being tired. Now there is no penalty for the same tactic.:cool

SWA

snowcat
02-09-2012, 08:00 PM
OTOH there aren't that many inferior troops now for the Sp to face. ;)

Sea Weathered Aketons
02-09-2012, 08:36 PM
You got that right! :eek

SWA

jacar
02-09-2012, 09:54 PM
I will point one thing out. The old Hoplite armies don't actually have any Warband heavy armies to face in their enemy list. So, for instance, the Thebes vs Gaul replay, while a bit disappointing, is not an actual historic match-up.

Of course, you tournament players out there that fight whatever to whatever will obviously disagree. ;)

Sea Weathered Aketons
02-09-2012, 10:08 PM
For years I played Early Saxon and got stomped. I'm in the final stages of a facelift on that army composed of old Thistle & Rose, Museum, Spintered Light and some other stuff. It should killer now! Time to reread the Goddodin!

I think I'll win my share with hoplites for all my complaining!

SWA

Bob Santamaria
02-10-2012, 12:45 AM
In the old days of 7th Edition, I could "force march" to the center line by
paying 2 fatigue points and be in the face of my enemy (similar to a Marathon-like charge) but, also that much closer to being tired. Now there is no penalty for the same tactic.:cool

SWA

But you wouldn't have force marched your hoplites. Ideally you would have had some very small regular units of LI, and force marched them, thereby making space for your hoplites or whatever to come up behind.

Bob Santamaria
02-10-2012, 12:47 AM
I will still be playing a lot with hoplites, but then I mainly play against historical opponents in DBA, so I don't really care if knights are good against them. Their historical opponents overwhelmingly do not have knights.

We shall have to wait and see whether the straight ahead for both moves is a big restriction for Wb or not. I usually play LHG Thessalian against LHG Theban, though I have Phokians at the painters as well.

Adrian

Sea Weathered Aketons
02-10-2012, 01:08 AM
But you wouldn't have force marched your hoplites. Ideally you would have had some very small regular units of LI, and force marched them, thereby making space for your hoplites or whatever to come up behind.

I actually force marched the whole force of hoplites! The Greeks did it at Marathon! My opponents were usually very surprised and it worked. Meaning I pinned them with a wall of HI, LTS, Sh! Oh it was glorious.....

SWA

Matt
02-10-2012, 01:18 AM
I will point one thing out. The old Hoplite armies don't actually have any Warband heavy armies to face in their enemy list. So, for instance, the Thebes vs Gaul replay, while a bit disappointing, is not an actual historic match-up.

Of course, you tournament players out there that fight whatever to whatever will obviously disagree. ;)

I don't play tournaments, but would disagree.

What would you suggest as the best army to represent the Greek forces at Thermopylae (279 BC)? Sources are pretty thin, but it appears to me it likely had a very large contingent of hoplites, as there are Athenians and Boeotians. Also, the sources seem to imply a similar deployment to what was used against the Persians in 480 BC.

Sources are clear that the "DBA warband QK rush" did not break the Greeks, and the Celts took heavy casualties, and had to surround the Greeks in the same manner the Persians did to force them out of the position.

I would add that this is the only battle I am aware of that pits (what appears to be) a hoplite force against Celts. But it did happen. I choose Thebans because they had more light troops than other options, which seems to be the case at this battle.

It also happens to be an allowed "historical" enemy in the army lists. Someone else seems to think it is a historical match up. ;)

Sea Weathered Aketons
02-10-2012, 01:20 AM
I will still be playing a lot with hoplites, but then I mainly play against historical opponents in DBA, so I don't really care if knights are good against them. Their historical opponents overwhelmingly do not have knights.

We shall have to wait and see whether the straight ahead for both moves is a big restriction for Wb or not. I usually play LHG Thessalian against LHG Theban, though I have Phokians at the painters as well.

Adrian

Good point. I think this is Phil's thinking. That they're still good vs Thracians, other hoplites and the Persians. They will suffer vs LH, Kn & Wb which they did not face except for the Macedonian/Successor Companions & LH and Galatians in the Later Hoplite Greek period. I am usually Early Hoplite Greek.

SWA

SWA

Bob Santamaria
02-10-2012, 01:38 AM
I actually force marched the whole force of hoplites! The Greeks did it at Marathon! My opponents were usually very surprised and it worked. Meaning I pinned them with a wall of HI, LTS, Sh! Oh it was glorious.....

SWA

D grade syracusan MI was the go really! Hoplites were good in the last version of Warrior

Sea Weathered Aketons
02-10-2012, 01:54 AM
D grade syracusan MI was the go really! Hoplites were good in the last version of Warrior

Anybody playing D class hoplites is a stud! I used to play D class phalangites in my Phyrric army. When Fast Warrior first came out we played several tournaments of it and loved it and then proceeded to full size games and it was simply too much brain damage for all of us. :)

SWA

Bob Santamaria
02-10-2012, 01:59 AM
Anybody playing D class hoplites is a stud! I used to play D class phalangites in my Phyrric army. When Fast Warrior first came out we played several tournaments of it and loved it and then proceeded to full size games and it was simply too much brain damage for all of us. :)

SWA

Fast Warrior was a lot of fun, but the army lists were very uneven. I was going through my trophies the other day and apparently I had won two tournaments in it! Can't remember them particularly, though I think I used Bactrian Greek in one of them.

Sea Weathered Aketons
02-10-2012, 02:07 AM
I played Later Swiss in 15mm and Italian Condotta in 25mm. Lack of shields for the Swiss hurt me as I gave them light armor only -HI/MI- but, I wanted to be able to move as fast as possible.

SWA

snowcat
02-10-2012, 03:39 AM
I played Later Swiss in 15mm and Italian Condotta in 25mm. Lack of shields for the Swiss hurt me as I gave them light armor only -HI/MI- but, I wanted to be able to move as fast as possible.

SWA

You should have painted them red. :cool

Bob Santamaria
02-10-2012, 05:16 AM
I played Later Swiss in 15mm and Italian Condotta in 25mm. Lack of shields for the Swiss hurt me as I gave them light armor only -HI/MI- but, I wanted to be able to move as fast as possible.

SWA

The Swiss later on with all their list rules were formidable. They were LHI/ LMI but did not have to waver test when charged and could do all sorts of things with their internal halberdiers in the second round of combat. Those were the days. They certainly moved at the speed of light as LHI. The Samurai Space Marines (LEHI) really got to me at the end though