PDA

View Full Version : PIP cost to move Ally elements


Pillager
01-18-2012, 02:25 AM
The yahoo list has generated two ideas in the thread

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/DBA/message/30486

Note that the background for this is the rule that you can substitute 3 elements from your list with those from an ally list.


"an army with allies still rolls only one PIP die. Each PIP spent moving the allies is one that can't be used for the native troops and vice-versa"
Mark

AND

"a PIP score of 1 or 2 cannot be used to move elements selected from an allied list".
The ally swap should also probably be prohibited for BBDBA.
Peter

Phil has stated that he is adopting Marks. But I don't know if he saw Peter's.

I think this calls for opinions & playtesting of both concepts.

He might even include both rules.

Peter's idea makes the allies unreliable (random); 1/3 of the time they will just stand there.

Mark's gives you reliability (predictable) with sometimes an extra cost. It would force the player to brigade his allies together. But is brigading always (or mostly) historically correct on the scale of DBA?

And if DBA usually consists of one long 12 element line, at least to begin with, is it realistic that it should require 2 PIPs to move forwards?

If the player uses his allies as a separate group, then there will not be an extra PIP cost at all. I think that it is highly likely that a player can select 3 elements which would logically work together without needing to be grouped with "core" elements. I think the rule can be avoided pretty easily. So is it worth having at all?

Bobgnar
01-18-2012, 03:31 PM
This is a nice innovation, using the Allies for something other than the old RBS Campaign Rules which are gone and BB.

The original plan was for them to need an extra pip to move as group or individual. I suggested that this would make them less useful, and seldom used. People would take El, Art, and other elements that already needed an extra PIP but not others than would need them too. Why not just charge an extra PIP if they were in group with basic army but otherwise move normally.

Now it seems something like that is possible. Do not put allies in group with master army. Otherwise every element or group needs its own PIP.
Does this mean, 2 PIPs for group with allies?

Pillager
01-19-2012, 09:41 PM
That's a 3rd option.

Alan Saunders
01-19-2012, 11:26 PM
The original plan was for them to need an extra pip to move as group or individual.

I like the idea of the extra PIP to group move them with the main army (like the Elf/Dwarf limit in the old version of HOTT. Not sure what happens if either part of the group containes Elephants or similar, though - is that an extra PIP too?

There obviously has to be some limits, otherwise the ability to swap in three elements of allies makes some army lists very flexible if they have a lot of interesting allies.

Martyn
01-20-2012, 06:22 AM
There obviously has to be some limits, otherwise the ability to swap in three elements of allies makes some army lists very flexible if they have a lot of interesting allies.

Yes that would be a concern. Just wondering whether the DBM/M system of only allowing compulsory troop types may work. So an allied contingent can not include elements that are identified as having alternatives.

Not totally happy that this is realistic particularly when you have option such as Bow/Ps elements which are variations of the same troops. Otherwise the only way to limit the selection is to identify in the army lists which elements are eligible as an ally contingent.

I like the idea, just not sure how it works.