PDA

View Full Version : Pip management in 3.0


john meunier
12-19-2011, 12:37 AM
I've long been told that one of the secrets of DBA is managing pips: Forcing the enemy to use pips he does not want to and avoiding wasting your own.

My ability to playtest is limited by having no hometown opponents. The locals do not like DBA, and I am a poor evangelist it seems.

But I do wonder if all the concern about Bd following up is a bit overstated.

The fact that Bd follow-up against other foot may actually make them more effective in many cases. Once your legions -- or Vikings or Arabs -- hit the enemy line, you do not have to spend pips to keep in contact. With a +5 combat factor, they are still going to be quite tough.

This means no precious pips need to be spend keeping the boys moving forward.

I could be wrong about this. I'm just exploring the implications.

Inanna'sBoyToy
12-19-2011, 12:49 AM
Don't roll 1's.

Ever.

david kuijt
12-19-2011, 01:16 AM
The fact that Bd follow-up against other foot may actually make them more effective in many cases. Once your legions -- or Vikings or Arabs -- hit the enemy line, you do not have to spend pips to keep in contact. With a +5 combat factor, they are still going to be quite tough.

This means no precious pips need to be spend keeping the boys moving forward.

I could be wrong about this. I'm just exploring the implications.

Would you ever spend a pip to push your Bd forward into double overlap? Pretty-much no. Not against anything.

So the only pips it saves you are the ones where your Bd impetuousity deletes an enemy overlap, for a combat-roll on next turn or not taken yet on this one. A pip savings for a move you WOULD do, if you had a pip for it. Say, at a guess, half the potential Bd/impetuous moves are ones you wouldn't do, and half are ones you would do.

Is that pip saving going to be significant?

Not likely. If your army has a lot of Bd, like the Vikings or the Arabs, you will have a lot of spare pips, because once your Bd are stuck in, they will not need a pip again. They can't disengage, and they stay stuck in.

larryessick
12-19-2011, 01:30 AM
If your army has a lot of Bd, like the Vikings or the Arabs, you will have a lot of spare pips, because once your Bd are stuck in, they will not need a pip again. They can't disengage, and they stay stuck in.

OTOH, that is probably what you would be doing with them anyway. So it is a bit of a false complaint. The best use of the troop once stuck in is generally to keep it stuck in.

It is correct that the mechanism frees whatever PIPs you do have to work the other troops or deal with problem situations via your own reserves. Players who attacked their opponent's PIPs may find it more difficult to do in some cases.

OTOH, managing your own PIPs might become more significant along with the use of reserves.

Xavi
12-19-2011, 06:21 AM
When I first started to consider playing warbands instead ot Auxilias (I started my DBA career with the subroman brits, all lists) was that it would save me LOTS of PIPs due to their impetuous nature. Keeping up contact and combat was bound to be a HUGE positive thing!! I voiced that opinion to my gaming buddies for several days before our DBA night of the week.

Epic fail.

Auxilias trounced my warbands big time PRECISELY because they were impetuopus and the auxilias were not. I had to end up using a lot of extra PIPs simply moving my impetuious Wb back and forward again (God bless double move by Wb) to provide NORMAL overlap support. So in the end I spent A LOT more PIPs than my opponents, exactly the opposite of what I originally thought would happen. And I still got trounced heaviily in the 4 games of the night. Getting a Wb pursue into the middle of the enmy line was a BAD thing.

Playing around with Wb they ended up being one of our favourite elements und er 2.2, but that is because their double move that allows you to achieve some impressive maneuver tricks, not becuase they are impetuous.

Now you cannot even move backwards to break from combat, so the situation is worse.

My 2 dracmas worth :)

Cheers,
Xavi

larryessick
12-19-2011, 11:27 AM
:2up

Good observation Xavi.

We've as of yet not played the sacrificial lamb to pull apart the blade line. I'll put it on my list of things to test.

john meunier
12-19-2011, 11:59 AM
I'll take impetuous Bd against Ax any day, especially now that Ax can't break-off.

david kuijt
12-19-2011, 12:09 PM
I'll take impetuous Bd against Ax any day, especially now that Ax can't break-off.

Oh, yes. Auxilia are now in pretty bad shape. Hide in BGo and weep.

Ammianus
12-19-2011, 04:48 PM
Well so much for my Scots-Irish!

Rich Gause
12-19-2011, 05:06 PM
... and it wasn't like Ax were supertroops before..... Heck now they will even have problems dominating the bad going as psiloi group moves might allow them to get overlaps. I am thinking Ax should probably have the psiloi group move in bad going thing too, but not the 2nd move.

kontos
12-19-2011, 05:09 PM
... and it wasn't like Ax were supertroops before..... Heck now they will even have problems dominating the bad going as psiloi group moves might allow them to get overlaps. I am thinking Ax should probably have the psiloi group move in bad going thing too, but not the 2nd move.

I would agree, Rich. Aux are going to be hosed and their strength was BG; now, not so much.

Hannibal Ad Portas
12-19-2011, 09:51 PM
OTOH, that is probably what you would be doing with them anyway. So it is a bit of a false complaint. The best use of the troop once stuck in is generally to keep it stuck in.

Nope...I would be using some of my PIP's to redress my line and put the warband in the bad overlap situations. In my playtest of Hawaiians versus Tupi, once the main battle lines were engaged I never used a PIP. I rolled a 4 for PIP's on the last bound and had no moves to make. My heavy foot were chasing Tupi everywhere and risking destruction. My general with psiloi support had to survive a +5 to +4 battle with the Tupi general and survived by a die roll 2 higher than my opponent....otherwise, it would have been the Tupi's game. On my left flank, two psiloi were staring off a bow and warband in mutual DZ's in some woods....no need to waste PIP's there, the psiloi were doing their job of keeping his wing busy.