shield patterns for Thematic Byzantines

[Darren Buxbaum]

I was interested in building a Thematic Byzantine army circa late 700's to early 800's (possibly Empress Irene's army). What would be a popular pattern for shields wielded by the Pk (skutatos?) and Cv. Whould the Chi-Ro (pardon my ignorance in spelling) still be popular? Or whould the sheild patterns be limited to the themes in which the troops were drawn? Thanks for any help in advance.

[Timurilank]

Darren,

What a coincidence, I was leafing through the Osprey Romano-Byzantine Armies 4th-9th Century book today. Most of the shield patterns were taken from illuminations of a number of Psalters depicting some noteworthy Biblical event. For a lack of a better description, the shields had floral or star patterns radiating from the center. McBride has represented the petals in alternating complimentary colours. Other patterns were simplified concentric rings about the center of the shield or near the outer edge. Either case, you will certainly want a distinction between Regular and Frontier troops.

Byzantium and Its Army by Warren Treadgold does an excellent treatment of the army’s development. Basically the Field army would have sufficient funds to pay for their weaponry, clothing which were drawn on state owned depots. Frontier troops earning one quarter the salary of field army troops could purchase less. So, items such as clothing, cloaks and shoes would certainly be procured from local artisans and I would think simpler forms of helmets, spears and possibly shields would be produced locally as well. In short, I could imagine Field Army units having more intricate designs and patterns, whereas Frontier troops may do with simpler designs, such as concentric rings of different colours. I have found references to units having pennons and helmet tufts or horse tails of the same colour.

cheers

[Darren Buxbaum]

Timurlank,
Thanks for the info. That is one of the few Ospreys I don't have and obviously need to get. Also, thank you for the other title as well.

The designs you had mentioned, were they mostly for the infantry or did it include the cavalry too?

[Timurilank]

The designs you had mentioned, were they mostly for the infantry or did it include the cavalry too? Actually both. Another suggestion illustrating the difference between the Field Army and Frontier forces would be the brilliance of colours. The shields for the Field forces would be made at the state armouries (better paint pigment) whereas the Frontier forces could be depicted with varying shades of a ground colour. One depiction even has arab script repeated near the shield edge.

cheers,

[Macbeth]

Originally posted by Timurilank:
One depiction even has arab script repeated near the shield edge.
Now that is a cool concept - the ancient world's equivalent of a humourous bumper sticker.

"If you're close enough to read this then I'm going to kill you" :D ;)

Cheers

[ August 22, 2005, 19:44: Message edited by: Macbeth ]

[Timurilank]

Macbeth wrote: 'If your close enough to read this then I'm going to kill you' Brilliant! LOL.

You posted earlier a slogan in Latin about sword and shield. Could you give that to us again?

cheers,

[Macbeth]

Ad gladium dicit, scutum non audiit

(talk to the sword, the shield isn't listening)

although some of the more scholarly types in Fanatici land began to debate the translation and suggested some other renditions of the idea.

It reminds me of the story from my early days of wargaming (WRG5th) in Bendigo (Central Victoria, Australia). One of the former members of the club had an Arab army and supposedly written in Arabic on the standard was
"What Was That You Said About My Mother?"

Cheers

[Timurilank]

Macbeth wrote:

Ad gladium dicit, scutum non audiit

(talk to the sword, the shield isn't listening)

although some of the more scholarly types in Fanatici land began to debate the translation and suggested some other renditions of the idea. Thanks for the quote. I would not be too put out by the translation, afterall it would still get the point across. :D

cheers,

[Boy Jon]

Originally posted by Macbeth:

[/qb]Now that is a cool concept - the ancient world's equivalent of a humourous bumper sticker.

"If you're close enough to read this then I'm going to kill you" :D ;)

Cheers [/QB][/QUOTE]

Twas I believe the Georgians who renamed a captured Arab frontier fortress...'Kiss my Backside!'
JB