BBDBA Troop Grading variant

[Barritus]

Hi all,

Well this is my very first post - so here goes.....:)

Quite a while ago I obtained copy of EBBDBA. One of the things I liked (a lot) in EBBDBA was the option to use Superior and Inferior grade troops. Where;

Inferior (I) troops must re-roll a combat score of ‘5’ but don’t re-roll again if they score a second ‘5’.

Superior (S) troops can choose to re-roll a combat score of ‘2’; they can so choose after an (I) opponent re-rolls. Where (S) troops oppose, the player whose turn it is can choose before the other side or after inviting him to re-roll first. A second score of ‘2’ is not re-rolled.

Now the problem was that in EBBDBA elements were costed (in Army Point's) so Ordinary, Superior and Inferior troops of the same type could each be given a different AP cost (superior being more expensive and inferior less expensive than ordinary). In BBDBA however elements are not costed so what I've come up with is the following idea;


This option allows Ordinary elements to be upgraded to Superior using ‘upgrade points’ (UP’s).

Upgrade points are gained by downgrading Ordinary elements to Inferior. The UP’s thus gained can then be used to upgrade other elements from Ordinary to Superior. Each side is allowed to accumulate and use up to 12 UP’s in total.

The amount of UP’s gained by downgrading an element and used when upgrading an element are shown in the table below.

UP’s
El, Kn, Bd 3
Ax, Ps 1
Others* 2

*with the exception of the following elements that cannot be either downgraded or upgraded: Any Generals element, Scythed chariots, Naval, Horde, Camp followers or BUA denizens.

Furthermore a front rank element of Pike, Warband or Spearmen can only receive rear support from a rear rank element of same if the rear rank element is of an equal or a higher grade than the front rank being supported.


So there you are – a possibly interesting rule variant which would allow players to tweak their armies a bit to gain some superior troops but at a price of having to downgrade others.

If anyone has any thoughts on it I'd be pleased to hear them.

Cheers

Barritus

[mickw]

Ebbdba?:???

[Pavane]

One solution is to use the DBM/DBMM army book to determine the troop quality of the elements in an army. Spartan Sp would be superior while Athenian Sp would be ordinary. No point count or unhistorical substitutions are needed.

I thought that there were a lot of good ideas in EBBDBA as well.

[Pavane]

Ebbdba?:???
It stands for Expanded BBDBA. The purpose is to fight battles around the size of BBDBA with a handful of rules from DBM, simplified and added. The problem with house rules like these is to get your group of players to adopt them without arguing over the point values, grading bonuses, etc.

[Bobgnar]

Please explain the use of the mentioned "naval" elements. Thanks.

[Pavane]

Please explain the use of the mentioned "naval" elements. Thanks.
Bob, do you have the EBBDBA document? If not I am happy to email it to you.

[Bobgnar]

First I have heard of it, but then I have forgotten much :) A search of computer gives null result. Please send,
beattie at umich dot edu

thanks much

[Pavane]

First I have heard of it, but then I have forgotten much :) A search of computer gives null result. Please send,
beattie at umich dot edu

thanks much
On its way.

[David Brown]

Hi there Barratus,

Most interesting, I actually had something like that as a variant in one version of E-BBDBA.

But I just had one upgrade balanced by one downgrade, but it didn't catch on with playtesters, the idea of a different cost for an upgrade per element is neat.

I reckon I'd jump straight for downgraded blades and bolster my Generals of whatever type.

db

[Barritus]

I reckon I'd jump straight for downgraded blades and bolster my Generals of whatever type.

db

Ah - but here's the rub - hopefully if I've written the rule correctly you'll notice that one of the caveats (seee the *) is that no Generals element can be upgraded or downgraded (similarly Naval and horde etc). I figured that the +1 tactical factor for a Generals element was generous enough. To my mind the one I would leap for is to downgrade a Blade element element (for 3 UP's) and then use it to upgrade 3 Ax(O) to Ax(S). Nifty for Romans and such.:up

[David Brown]

Yes, I missed the rule for Generals but I agree with the other troop types excluded from up/downgrading.

I reckon you could safely leave Generals in the types to be up/downgraded, if a player so-upgrades a general he presumably intends to get stuck in with him more often and therefore risk death.

If he downgrades a general he sorta singals that he will not fight with one of (presumably) his more powerful elements.

While I have played a number of games and even a small comp with the '2-5 re-roll' idea I'm still not sure of its overall impact.

You might crunch the numbers and find a potential 10% or so boost / degrade to the elements, but it looks like the actual benefit depends more on the troops' base factors and how many quick-kills they suffer or inflict.

Mind you it's a simple way to add colour to BBDBA.

db

[Barritus]

I reckon you could safely leave Generals in the types to be up/downgraded, if a player so-upgrades a general he presumably intends to get stuck in with him more often and therefore risk death.

If he downgrades a general he sorta singals that he will not fight with one of (presumably) his more powerful elements.

While I have played a number of games and even a small comp with the '2-5 re-roll' idea I'm still not sure of its overall impact.

You might crunch the numbers and find a potential 10% or so boost / degrade to the elements, but it looks like the actual benefit depends more on the troops' base factors and how many quick-kills they suffer or inflict.

Mind you it's a simple way to add colour to BBDBA.

db

An alternative option for Generals would be instead to allow generals to be upgraded to Talented - for a straightr 3 UP's regardless of troop type. This had no effect in combat but a Talented General would be able to ADD 1 bonus pip whenever it rolls a PIP die of '2' or '5'. It may be that only one general on each side could be so upgraded...need to think about that one.

As for the benefit of the 2-5 rule to various elements I think you're right but I'm hoping that the variable UP cost might balance this out (assuming I've got it right of course). So more powerful elements such as Kn, Blade and EL cost 3 UP's as against say lesser mortals such as Sp or Bw at 2UP's or Ax and Ps at 1 UP.

I certainly think grading options add some colour and using UP's gives the players some interesting downgrading/upgrading choices.