miracle dip inquiry

[konstantinius]

Hi all, I just finished reading the things people wrote about using the miracle dip method. I got me a can of Polyshades Tudor gloss and I'll soon try my first figure.
I noticed that people recommended to prime and paint only the non-metal parts of the fig. My question is this: how do you selectively prime some parts but not others of a tiny 15mm miniature? Brush-on primer? Or should I prime the entire fig but only paint the non-metal parts?
Cheers, K.

[<Bob..>]

If you want to prime do it. Many dippers PPRIME with the major color of the figure. Then paint over that. The dip gives you an air tight cover so there should not be any oxidation.

Gloss will give you a very shiny result. If you wnat to dull it read here. This is some info on dipping and the original article on dipping.

[Dhingis Khan]

Originally posted by konstantinius:
I noticed that people recommended to prime and paint only the non-metal parts of the fig. My question is this: how do you selectively prime some parts but not others of a tiny 15mm miniature? Brush-on primer? Or should I prime the entire fig but only paint the non-metal parts?
Cheers, K. I prime the non-metallic parts of the figure with a brush. Bare metal with a coat of dip looks more like armor than anything else I've tried. Once the figure is painted I apply Dull Cote with a brush so the metal stays shiny.

I use cheap brushes for priming and Dull Cote. Save the good brushes for actual painting. I paint on the dip these days too. Use a real cheap brush for that - the dip eats them. Even if you clean up thoroughly, the brush gives out after dipping 200 or so figures.

[David Kuijt]

Originally posted by Dhingis Khan:
Bare metal with a coat of dip looks more like armor than anything else I've tried.Yup. Metallic acyrlics just don't compare.

[I. M. Barnicus]

It takes me about 20 seconds to prime with my sprayed Flat Black, and drybrushing the metallic features takes only a couple minutes. How long does selective brush-on priming take? And then selective Dull Coting?!? All due respect, but if your fig isn't in mail from head to toe, it seems like you'll end up painting them 3 or 4 times with the aforementioned method and not THAT great a difference.

Aerosol CAN be our time-saving/brush-sparing/aggravation-avoiding friend! Originally posted by Dhingis Khan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by konstantinius:
I noticed that people recommended to prime and paint only the non-metal parts of the fig. My question is this: how do you selectively prime some parts but not others of a tiny 15mm miniature? Brush-on primer? Or should I prime the entire fig but only paint the non-metal parts?
Cheers, K. I prime the non-metallic parts of the figure with a brush. Bare metal with a coat of dip looks more like armor than anything else I've tried. Once the figure is painted I apply Dull Cote with a brush so the metal stays shiny.

I use cheap brushes for priming and Dull Cote. Save the good brushes for actual painting. I paint on the dip these days too. Use a real cheap brush for that - the dip eats them. Even if you clean up thoroughly, the brush gives out after dipping 200 or so figures. </font>[/QUOTE]

[David Kuijt]

Originally posted by I. M. Barnicus:
How long does selective brush-on priming take? And then selective Dull Coting?!? All due respect, but if your fig isn't in mail from head to toe, it seems like you'll end up painting them 3 or 4 times with the aforementioned method and not THAT great a difference.
Priming is fast. Not as fast as spraypaint, but so what? It depends upon what you are looking for. Some people don't paint eyes and eyebrows on their 15mm figures -- they save time that way. Nothing wrong with that, but I do eyes and eyebrows.

If you want to save time and how it looks is not so important, then you save time by not-priming only if the figure is 3/4 metal armour or more. Personally, I not-prime if the figure is half metal armour or more -- I'm not saving TIME on those figures, but they look nicer.

Note that 15th century Medieval dudes in white harness (plate mail) are SCREAMINGLY fast to paint this way. Prime and paint the horse (unless it is in a Full Metal Jacket also), detail the unprimed rider (usually face, belt, scabbard, stirrups, and maybe some touches of gold here and there, plus lance or other weapon) and glue that puppy down on the horse. After dippage he looks MAHvelous.

[Dhingis Khan]

Originally posted by I. M. Barnicus:
How long does selective brush-on priming take? And then selective Dull Coting?!? Not all that long - priming is very fast with a large cheap brush. Of course, the last figures I did this with were my Mirliton Condottiere and they are wearing a LOT of plate armor. They look very, very nice.

[Scottila]

Do you guys "dip" straight or do you cut the stuff down a bit with mineral spirits? I tried straight, last summer with some old previously painted huns, and I am not sure I liked the effect. Although I must admit the color I used was Mahogony which is really reddish - this time I got the good stuff (tudor).

The reddish wasn't too bad on the huns, but I am looking fwd to trying the real "dip" - two armies glued down onto nails and ready to go...

If I cut it down a bit I don't know how much to do so. I am a little leary of the wick-away excess with a paper towel. From the last time around, it looked likere there was way too much coverage after wicking. My technique denigrated into wiping with a papertowel, and that took too much off.

[Ed Dillon]

Originally posted by David Kuijt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by I. M. Barnicus:
How long does selective brush-on priming take? And then selective Dull Coting?!? All due respect, but if your fig isn't in mail from head to toe, it seems like you'll end up painting them 3 or 4 times with the aforementioned method and not THAT great a difference.
Priming is fast. Not as fast as spraypaint, but so what? It depends upon what you are looking for. Some people don't paint eyes and eyebrows on their 15mm figures -- they save time that way. Nothing wrong with that, but I do eyes and eyebrows.
</font>[/QUOTE]&lt;snip&gt;

David, you do eye LASHES and stubble on the chins of guys fighting in the afternoon.... :rolleyes:
Ed

[David Kuijt]

Originally posted by Scottila:
Do you guys "dip" straight or do you cut the stuff down a bit with mineral spirits? I tried straight, last summer with some old previously painted huns, and I am not sure I liked the effect. Although I must admit the color I used was Mahogony which is really reddish - this time I got the good stuff (tudor).

If I cut it down a bit I don't know how much to do so. I am a little leary of the wick-away excess with a paper towel. From the last time around, it looked likere there was way too much coverage after wicking. My technique denigrated into wiping with a papertowel, and that took too much off. You need to manage the dip density -- as time goes on, your dip will get thicker, and you will need to cut it with mineral spirits to keep it the right thickness. I'm afraid practice is your only guide here -- I could show you how thick I keep mine if you came to visit, but otherwise it is hard to describe.

The mahogany doesn't cut it -- as you say, too reddish.

[Itchysama]

Originally posted by David Kuijt:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scottila:
[qb]

The mahogany doesn't cut it -- as you say, too reddish. Instead of Tudor, you might try Early American. Walnut and Tudor is too dark for my tastes. And I really don't dip, but brush it on. I definetly lighten it up by overbrushing it with a drier brush if too dark anywhere except the base. And watch the fumes! Defintely an outdoor or spacious garage task (besides the wife goes ballistic if I get it on the carpet!!).

Alan
aka
Itchysama

[Scottila]

Originally posted by David Kuijt:

You need to manage the dip density -- as time goes on, your dip will get thicker, and you will need to cut it with mineral spirits to keep it the right thickness. I'm afraid practice is your only guide here -- I could show you how thick I keep mine if you came to visit, but otherwise it is hard to describe.
Say it is your first dip project - brand new can, form the "how-to's" about miricle dip on the resources site, I would presume you use the stuff straight, but then thin it as time goes on and the dip thickens. I am not all that confident on my ability to wick-away excess with a towel, and would prefer to be able to shake most of it off. I was thinking of mixing it 1:1 with thinner, or maybe 3:2 for the first try. Does this sound reasonable?

Some of the Huns I did came out pretty good - if a bit reddish, but for the huns that did not look too far out of place. I had done them with a fresh can using straight dip. The problem I had with straight was that on some the coverage was too heavy, and on others I had wiped too much off and the dip-effect was largely lost. Hence, I was thinking of a thinner dipping-sauce.

[David Kuijt]

Originally posted by Scottila:

Say it is your first dip project - brand new can, form the "how-to's" about miricle dip on the resources site, I would presume you use the stuff straight, but then thin it as time goes on and the dip thickens. I am not all that confident on my ability to wick-away excess with a towel, and would prefer to be able to shake most of it off. I was thinking of mixing it 1:1 with thinner, or maybe 3:2 for the first try. Does this sound reasonable?
The new can is nearly perfect density.

When I thin the can, I add less than 2 oz to a full can (32 oz.). Never thin it as much as you suggest.

The only solution to getting a good level between "too much" and "too little" is practice. Practice on old figs that you are touching up, if you like. But there are no shortcuts.

With that said, it isn't a difficult art.

[Scottila]

OK, a couple of observations on Miricle Dip.

Did some previously painted 15mm Skeletons over the weekend, and did some freshly painted 10-15mm trolls today.

The skeletons came out spectacularly. Like individual ribs and vertebrae were highlighted nicely on many of them. They were a bit darker (as expected), but not unduely so. Actually, I had several fall off of their nails during production, and I din't get back to them until the next day and the contrast was stark. between the pre-dip stragglers and the by-then-set figs. Basically transmorgifyed a C to C- paintjob into the B range.

Tudor Gloss gets quite shiny after setting for a day or two. The ace hardware down off of market street was the only one who had tudor of any sort, and I couldn't be bothered with special ordering. I'm not sure how I feel about the gloss effect yet. The skeletons may not be an effective test (minimal surface area). Hopefully I can dullcoat it if the gloss is too pronounced. Now really, having the Black Hand march off to battle with shiny undead would be uncouth.

The trolls were just done, but I am already noticing thickening of the dip. I have used it twice previously (the two rounds with the skeletons). I topped it off with a swig (OK, so it was closer to a gulp) of mineral spirits to be sure, and then did the last troll with the diluted brew. Will let you know what I think of the difference in effect after it sets for a day or so.

As an aside I took the 1/2 pt. can of minwax and transferred it to three glass jars with metal screw-down tops (purchased at the container store - conveniently right next door to the hardware store) to hopefully preserve it a bit longer. Any comments on the shelf-life of miricle dip? I remember one guy mentioning that he used discarded frapaccino bottles to sustain the stuff.

[ April 05, 2005, 02:35: Message edited by: Scottila ]

[David Kuijt]

Shelf life: as long as I seal it tightly and watch the consistency (thinning it when needed) I have always run out before it goes bad. Sometimes I have to bust through and discard a crust on the top, but that doesn't affect the dip (although, interestingly enough, the dip gradually becomes less glossy as you use it more and more).

I've had the same results with skeletons -- they paint up in seconds and look brilliant.

Even with "Satin" finish I find the results too glossy. I use a coat of Testors Dull-cote to dull them down; I think that's an excellent product and I recommend it highly.

[Volund]

Has anyone from the UK found a suitable alternative to the US 'Miracle Dip'? I searched the archives and found this from Ruth:

Originally posted by Marcus Aurelius:
I tried the Miracle Dip method on a pair of bare-chested 15mm Ancient British Slingers this afternoon, having trotted down to my local B&Q (British DIY superstore) to buy varnish. Following the tip for UK painters, I bought Ronseal Quick Drying Interior Varnish, Satin finish, colour Walnut. I painted it onto the figures, then drybrushed them to remove the excess. Results - fabulous! Only snag is now I have to finish all my figures the same way - these little guys look so suntanned and muscular, the rest of the troops look pathetic beside them. Has anyone tried anything else, or is Ronseal the one to go for?

Kim