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Si@BAM
12-30-2010, 07:31 AM
"Crossing the front" is one of the areas that I would like to see explained better in 3.0.
I remember a few years ago there was a discussion on the two methodologies: flashlight vs rolling carpet - did any sort of consensus ever get achieved?

It would also be nice if that rather important little area got a proper name...

best regards
Si2

Tony Aguilar
12-30-2010, 09:39 AM
The Rolling Carpet method is the only one that gets used in the three conventions I attend. I am not aware of anyone that uses the Flashlight method.

Kontos
12-30-2010, 10:55 AM
The Rolling Carpet method is the only one that gets used in the three conventions I attend. I am not aware of anyone that uses the Flashlight method.
Except maybe in HotT? There are those that seem to prefer that method. I am not one of them. I'm easily confused. :o

Frank

Tony Aguilar
12-30-2010, 11:07 AM
Except maybe in HotT? There are those that seem to prefer that method. I am not one of them. I'm easily confused. :o

Frank

Don't know, I don't play HOTT. The flashlight method seems to to cause more problems than it solves.

David Kuijt
12-30-2010, 10:21 PM
I remember a few years ago there was a discussion on the two methodologies: flashlight vs rolling carpet - did any sort of consensus ever get achieved?


There were more than two methodologies -- another was "shooting".

Consensus was achieved long ago -- I haven't seen anything but carpet used in half a decade. Whenever this topic comes up one or two people mention on this forum that they use (or want to use) something else, so it has never seemed unanimous, but carpet is the standard except some small pockets, as far as I've bothered to track.

David Kuijt
12-30-2010, 10:22 PM
Except maybe in HotT?

As far as I know, nobody in HotT has ever used flashlight. I vaguely recall some who have used shooting (shooting heuristic), but flashlight has bizarre distinctions that, once pointed out, nobody wants.

Si@BAM
12-31-2010, 05:28 AM
There were more than two methodologies -- another was "shooting".

Consensus was achieved long ago -- I haven't seen anything but carpet used in half a decade. Whenever this topic comes up one or two people mention on this forum that they use (or want to use) something else, so it has never seemed unanimous, but carpet is the standard except some small pockets, as far as I've bothered to track.
That's great.
Re-reading the paragraph, the bit about "even partially between" seems to support this.

Si2

King-Maker
12-31-2010, 05:40 AM
At the risk of sounding an idiot (but i am new to all this!) what exactly is the "Flashlight" and "Rolling Carpet" method?

I am as I say new to DBA and the ZOC roles do seem confusing.

Scott Russell
12-31-2010, 06:44 AM
At the risk of sounding an idiot (but i am new to all this!) what exactly is the "Flashlight" and "Rolling Carpet" method?

I am as I say new to DBA and the ZOC roles do seem confusing.

In brief, you either assume you are rolling a carpet out from the front of your element's base, and the ZOC stops when the carpet hits something, or you assume the ZOCc is defined as if a flashlight was being shone from the front edge and anything not in shadow is ZOC-ed. Similar considerations apply to shooting arcs.
Your best bet is to put, for example, "flashlight" into the search facility above. The subject is covered many times over. There is a thesis on the subject by David Kuijt explaining why the carpet method is best and pointing out some extraordinary situations which arise if you go for the flashlight method instead. Unfortunately I can't locate it, but you might have a go, as the process of trying to find it will be educational in itself.
Scott

Martyn
12-31-2010, 09:28 AM
Your best bet is to put, for example, "flashlight" into the search facility above.Scott

How much time have you got? Best set aside a day or three. :silly

Scott Russell
12-31-2010, 11:10 AM
"Flashlight" only brings up 22 threads. It is interesting to read them in date order to see the development and partial resolution of the controversy.
Alternatively, try http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/ZOC/ZOCheuristics.htm
Scott

Martyn
12-31-2010, 11:30 AM
"Flashlight" only brings up 22 threads. It is interesting to read them in date order to see the development and partial resolution of the controversy.

Unfortunately several of the threads are in excess of 100 posts long. :eek

However, it is always interesting and highly recommended to look up some of the old threads for anybody who is relatively new to the game (and probably the same for the old timers). I have certainly found many answers to questions that I have not then had to post, and even the answers to some questions that I had not even thought of.