View Full Version : wargames standard
06-09-2003, 09:34 AM
I was reading the previous thread and noted the use of the term 'wargames standard'
What is this??
Does it vary from scale to scale??
Assuming 15mm, which seems the 'wargames standard' of scales, my WS would be:
Main areas od foot and horse painted, ink washed, dark lined and highlighted.
Bases black edged and flocked. Shields plain colours, maybe transfers.
Is this how others see it??
The next step is to paint embellishments like celtic tatooes, tartans, plaids, arabic/persian cloth patterns, detail transfers or paint shields, add grasses and rocks to bases, introduce bay and dun horses, palominos, greys etc..
What would someone who buys WS pre painted figures expect??
06-09-2003, 04:30 PM
This is a very subjective question. As someone who both paints himself and who buys unpainted figures and sends them to pro-painters (when I can afford to), I would consider my own painting to be wargames standard! That means all possible detail in 15mm; for example: belts, buckles and an ink wash (something I'm still battling with). It does not include eyes! I will only pay a pro to paint at a higher level of detail than I am capable of; for example:
Woad on Ancient Brits, eyes on horses and so on.
06-09-2003, 04:44 PM
Is "standard" the minimumly accepted level or the average level.
To me the former would be that all metal is covered with paint the color of what the item represents. The base is painted a ground color appropriate to the ground on which it fights. No metal is showing through the paint.
Shading, hightights and other decoration are abovet the minimum for the wargame table. Take what I describe and dip it and you have an average paint job, above standard, yet not lined or highlighted.
06-09-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by GAZMAN:
I was reading the previous thread and noted the use of the term 'wargames standard'
I agree with what Bob and Derek have posted, I will just add a little.
I think there are two relevent terms: 1) minimum wargames standard, and 2) wargames standard.
1) minimum wargames standard -- I think this is the lowest level of figure representation which most (Ancients) wargamers deem to be acceptable. The figures are painted. The colors are reasonable for the figures they represent (NKE bowmen do not wear pink, yellow, and green striped tunics). The figures are accurate (they don't have laser guns, EIR figures aren't used for Japanese).
2) wargames standard -- I think this is used to describe the paint job itself. It is assumed that the figures are accurate and the colors are appropriate. The paint job itself is at least of average quality compared to all of the figures you would see at a big convention.
06-10-2003, 11:22 AM
For me, wargames standard means the figures look good at wargaming distance. IOW, if some clown picks up the figures and brings them in for close examonation, they'll find problems - but on the table, they look OK.
06-10-2003, 12:21 PM
So there is, by concensus, a varied opinion.
You often see painting services advertised as 'wargames standard' and 'collectors standard' I just wondered what you would expect.
06-10-2003, 12:32 PM
>>and an ink wash (something I'm still battling with).
What ink do you use??
I have used windsor and Newton inks for about sixteen years now and I would not use anything else. The Nut brown is essential. Just 'flow' it on. thin it down with distilled water if you want to, for things like linen, etc. For dark brown like wood, straight on.
I can show you some pics of the process if you want. I can even video it in a little MPEG?
Don't know if you can see, but my avatar is painted with ink washing technique. I do then go back and highlight though to further enhance.
06-10-2003, 01:08 PM
Wargames standard paint job is one that complys with the 2 foot rule. If it looks fantastic at two feet away, then it is wargame standard. If it looks fantastic at one foot or six inches, then it is considered good and excellent respectively.
Non-wargame standard paint job (at 2 feet) examples: If you can see paint bleeding from the shield onto the head or weapon. If the face is covered by helmet color. If the straps on the horse bleed over. If the sheild color is ahistorical. If any metal is showing. If the hand color bleeds onto the weapon.
Any of the examples above are normal, but not noticable at two feet; such examples of minor effect would still mean wargame standard.
06-10-2003, 06:06 PM
I agree that the two foot rule is appropriate. I'm not in favour of some bozo just coming along and picking my figs up anyway; even when (especially when) they are painted well. And if you have your head is within two feet of my table-top you had better be my opponent, otherwise your getting just a little too close for my liking <<back off, I say!>>
[ June 10, 2003, 15:10: Message edited by: Delirium's Brother ]
06-16-2003, 02:42 PM
A "two-foot" rule sounds good to me.
It can be even more complicated than that!
We've got two excellent painters here who brought their figures in to our OTDBARS tournament last March.
One guy paints so it looks good from two feet away. Actually to me it looks perfect from two feet away.
The other guy paints in AMAZING detail and accuracy -- fleurs de lys "embroidered" on his Knights' horse blankets, etc. It looks GREAT from six inches away! However, it starts to look muddy from two feet away.
So which one is better? It depends on what you really want to look at!
I'll NEVER paint as well as these guys... My painting seems better suited to covering terrain instead.
11-26-2003, 08:55 PM
Rather than holding a ruler to your nose, two feet is holding the figure a comfortable distance away, arm not completely extended.
If anything just doesn't look right at that distance, then it need fixing.
I know I tend to get fixated on things that aren't perfect under my 4X goggles. Also, there are so many macro eyecandy jpegs out there. . . they tend to push the standards up.
Ted in PA
11-27-2003, 07:06 PM
I never noticed your earlier question in response to my complaint re: "battling with ink washes".
Now that this thread has re-emerged I noticed your question.
I have tried 3 different ink washes to date:
1) Coat d'arms (best results with black and brown);
2) Colour Party; and
I buy Coat d'arms direct from Gladiator and they are my favourite paint. Similarly I bought Colour Party from a UK on-line retailer and I like their products for basing and painting terrain. Their paint is a bit thick for my liking. However I like their horse colours and ACW colours.
Citadel (Games Workshop) is the only one available locally at a shop in PE South Africa. So if I need something in a hurry at least I can get an ink ! However it is far cheaper to buy Coat d'arms or Colour Party from the UK than GW Citadel locally !!!
While Windsor and Newton artists' paints are available locally, their inks are not. I have not yet found an on-line retailer prepared to post to SA.
My problem with ink washes is in getting them right on:
1) Chainmail armour - I tend to err in them being either too dark or too light; and
2) Flesh tones - I really like 15mm figures that have a lot of their bare skin exposed that have had their skin parts ink-washed. For example Punic Wars period Ancient Spanish or Numidians wore not much more than tunics and really look good with a decent ink wash. I painted some of my Spanish myself and they do not look as nice as those painted by a pro who ink-washed the ones he painted. We even use the same paints and the same colour scheme. I am considering posting the ones I painted to the Uk for an ink wash ! (Some of my troops have travelled very far before they get to the battlefield). However I am busy paying a UK pro in installments and until I have finished that job, my Ancient Spanish will have to wait !
I am very satisfied with my painting when it comes to ink-washing horses manes and tails smile.gif
Hopefully I will eventually find an on-line retailer who is prepared to post Windsor & Newton.
What ink colours would you recommend ?
To get back to the thread I concur with the "2 foot" rule as "wargames standard". I especially like it if elements are easily recognisable as Roman Aux, Thracian Aux or Greek Aux from the other side of the table. A good paint job on the shield is important in attaining "wargames standard" in my opinion. My advice to others who are not satisfied with their painting (& I am very far from satisfied with my own) is that the more one paints the better one gets.
[ November 27, 2003, 17:03: Message edited by: derek ]
11-28-2003, 11:05 AM
if you want W and N inks I can post you some - I will pop a couple of ink washed figures in as well if you want....
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